To remind you that Rainbows, Brownies and Guides are mixed sex?

[KatieAlcock]

I have settled my case with Girlguiding and I may now take my daughter to Brownies, but it's been a long hard slog.
If you have a daughter in Guiding, you do have the right to ask for single sex accommodation for her. In fact, I'd say if you don't, it's a bit worrying.
If you are a leader, you can also say you will only share a room with a female.
Parents and leaders should get decent clear communications about what they are letting themselves in for and their rights, but we shall see if that transpires.

www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-10765045/I-outcast-shunned-like-criminal-just-wanting-Girl-Guides-safe.html

i saw the way this was going and was really relieved when my DD didn’t want to go to Guides…

I just wouldn’t want to put her in a shit situation that GG would have been happy to do. Very poor safeguarding in my view.

Bloody well done Katie.

It's always so lovely that so many people think that because some groups are mixed sex they all should be. (Please read this in the most sarcastic tone tone you can because it's far from lovely. )

Brownies/Guides was the only group where I lived that didn't have boys in. It was the only place I ever truly relaxed and didn't have to worry about whether the boy/man next to me was actually a rapist. It was my only safe space. I needed it. I deserved it.

Yep
I think the issue is unlikely to arise at my unit as I run Brownies. If it does I will not allow biological male child to share with female children, and i will make it clear why.

Well done Katie for standing by your principles. I wish there were more people as brave as you x

Thank you Katie

Surely the girls get to choose if they're happy sharing sleeping quarters and showers with someone with a penis though?
The trans persons rights do not trump every else's.
It's about equality, everyone should be consulted and go with the wishes of the majority

This is the issue.

The lies and deception are because they know parents would not accept mixed sex.

But it's worse than that. They're implementing a policy that is telling girls their needs must be subverted for males. That their desire for safety, privacy, dignity or any other bloody reason they want a single sex space DON'T matter. And indeed the trans person (who in every example is male) should be allowed to do as they want to the detriment of every single biological girl there.

By their lies, deception and lack of clarity they are making it VERY clear they don't think girls should have the right to say 'no' to Trans identifying males.

No-one is saying trans identified females shouldn't be allowed in the guides - it's pretty much always been a haven for girls that don't conform to sex based stereotypes, however they identify.

The guiding policy is essentially excluding trans identified females.

And the rest of the biological girls are being told 'trans' trumps everything else - so it's not surprising so many girls are then claiming to be trans.

Unfortunately they won't be able to identify out of the utter sexism of all of this because it's only the males that count.

But how would you know they were a biological male? If they haven’t hit puberty, give you a girls name, parents say they’re a girl….how could you tell?

I wonder how schools are handling trans issues on residentials? I’m a teacher (primary) and I’m dreading this issue ever coming up for me.

@KatieAlcock You are a heroine.

I cannot thank and admire enough people like you who put themselves on the line to protect the rights and safety of women and girls.

Having any man/boy masquerading as a woman/girl in order to share, tents, hospital wards, toilets, changing rooms, rape crisis centres, prison cells, train sleeper carriages (the list goes on) is insanity.

Katie, you are a hero and a loss to the true spirit of Guiding.
The day the issue rises in my unit will be my last day in Guiding. I wish I had your courage to speak out.

It happened to me, and I did.

Incredibly dismissive - especially your 'got the t-shirt' comment @MissCrowley - what's that supposed to mean? Being sexually assaulted is akin to going to a festival or something?

And the 'more likely' thing is a ridiculous stance. You are more likely to be killed by a family member than out and about - does that mean you don't think good street lighting, night buses, and other things that help keep people safe are not worth bothering with either? Did you have no feelings about the women who have been killed this last year (any year??) by strangers when vigils were held both in memory and because women had had enough? Should no-one have bothered over that because women are more likely to be killed by a family member?

No, you cannot prevent every risk, but by God you should take every precaution, and keeping biological men and boys out of girls' dorms is a major one.

i only take from our village and the neighbouring one. It should also be on medical details.

I find it hard to fathom how people like @MissCrowley have safeguarding responsibilities that they are able to discharge safely and legally.

It should also be on medical details.
It's not recorded by GG so you will have to trust parents to tell you.

As a Scouting leader... I think most are like me, crossing their fingers and hoping the issue doesn't come up locally as whatever you do, it will be wrong.
Strangely, Scouts does allow for troops to be single sex under certain conditions (mainly parallel groups, so that things such as the Muslim groups can operate.

Also points above about the disparity where Scouts allows girls but Guides doesn't allow girls... these are International movements. In some countries, Guides can only exist because it is Single Sex.

Thank you Katie for standing up for openess and honesty. I've just renewed my Safeguarding training. The main theme through it was no secrets and communication. Lying completely goes against this.

Well done Katie. I’m so tired of their miserable and sly HQ literally destroying Girlguiding as a whole. They are a continuous fuck up.

This policy has come up around the time that my DSs have been around the same age as my unit. We always followed the policies on segregating them by sex and there were many pack holidays that I couldn't go on because we couldn't reasonably accommodate male leaders' children according to the policy.

It is galling and concerning that that policy which exists for good reason can be negated by the magic words "I am a girl". We've been transparent about leaders' children, and as they've got older it's become easier to manage to not mix them with my Guiding life.

Having sons, I've also become entangled in Scouting and at least it is transparent that it is an organisation where both sexes can participate frequently.

It's my friendships that keep me in Girl Guiding. I hate the wet, naval gazing, pescriptive new programme. The scouting programme is more practical. Girl Guiding has been reduced to "lets talk about going for a walk. How would we feel about it?" Scouts get on with actually going for a walk.

@KatieAlcock do you think anything will change as a result of your brave stand? Now there is more light shone on the issue will GG make some adjustments especially for overnight stays, or be more open about what parents and their daughters can expect do you think?

I think these might have been updated? Section about new trans members. Basically girl-only means sex and gender and GG state that unequivocally.
It seems much clearer, but I think some people are not going to be happy.
Basically girls and trans girls are welcome. NB girls are sort of welcome. NB boys are not. Trans boys, well this is what they say
we don’t expect there to be many trans boys interested in joining Girlguiding as we are explicitly a girl-only organisation but they can join. Or remain.

This is copied from their section about NB members.

As a girl-only charity we accept female members, under the protected characteristic of sex, and those whose gender is girl or woman, under the protected characteristic of gender reassignment.

A young person who is non-binary (someone who does not exclusively identify as girl or boy) and was recorded female at birth would be welcome to join. They are likely to have friends and peers in their unit and a clear desire to be part of our girl-only charity because they see the benefit and support that will come from a girl-only space for them. When registering on GO a young person is not asked about their gender identity.

Girlguiding is open to non-binary young members who were recorded female at birth. They will need to identify strongly enough with our girl-only space to feel comfortable and confident in wanting to benefit from, and contribute to, a movement of girls and young women who share and explore issues and experiences relating to growing up as a girl in today’s world.

Young people who are boys or are non-binary and were recorded as male at birth are not able to join Girlguiding because Girlguiding is a girl-only space.

For new non-binary young members, who were recorded female at birth, it's important to have an open and honest conversation with them and their parents or carers if suitable. Discuss with them what it means to be a Girlguiding member, what they want to get out of a guiding experience, and explore whether Girlguiding is the right choice for them.

I'd like to know what happens when a transgirl Guide decides that maybe she's not a girl after all, or is NB. As boys and NB boys are not permitted to be members, presumably their membership would be terminated?

Still doesn't call out that girls and boys and women and men will be sharing sleeping/dressing/washing spaces on residential events though, nor that if you have a rainbow or Brownie who has a toilet related incident (it happens), or even starts her period in a meeting or during a residential, it could be a man who helps her out.

It would be a lot simpler to have it single sex wouldn't it...

Wouldn't it just.

There are sections on this which again, I think may have been updated - lots of advice around seeking venues with certain facilities and a lot about all members feeling safe etc..so less of the attitude of girls having just to put up and shut up, but still putting a very large amount of responsibility on Leaders to make this work.

beavers cubs scouts the kids can sleep mixed sex or same sex.

What I want to know is why the poster felt the need to come here and post. Thats just looking for comments.

Trans gender are just that I'm sure the poster hates Peer Educators too. If and when it crops up in a unit then it would be dealt with. Scouting becoming mixed sex also meant it was eligable for funding that single sex organisations cannot get. Guiding has always been supported by husbands brothers fathers etc and good leadership teams have always had the protocols in place