To remind you that Rainbows, Brownies and Guides are mixed sex?

[KatieAlcock]

I have settled my case with Girlguiding and I may now take my daughter to Brownies, but it's been a long hard slog.
If you have a daughter in Guiding, you do have the right to ask for single sex accommodation for her. In fact, I'd say if you don't, it's a bit worrying.
If you are a leader, you can also say you will only share a room with a female.
Parents and leaders should get decent clear communications about what they are letting themselves in for and their rights, but we shall see if that transpires.

www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-10765045/I-outcast-shunned-like-criminal-just-wanting-Girl-Guides-safe.html

I don't see what the issue is. I'm really sorry but I don't. Scouts have been mixed sex for ages. Obviously asking to have female/ male spaces to change, sleep etc is within our rights.
I'm a girl guiding leader myself. You can't have one rule for Scouts and demand that they allow females in and not reciprocate. It's all or nothing.
Got my flame proofed vest on as I know full well my opinion will not be a popular one.
And before anyone starts throwing around the child sexual abuse card and saying "You have no idea" then please don't bother. I've been there and unfortunately got that t-shirt.
Percentage wise there's more chance of sexual abuse happening within the family members rather than an outside source.

We go through rigorous safe guard training- 4 levels in fact to ensure our young people are kept safe and well during their time with us.

Congratulations Katie.

The whole situation is insane. I have promised myself if the situation presents itself at my unit I will walk away and take my daughters (if they are still there at the time) with me.

I refuse to willingly endanger the young girls in my care in this way. Well done you for being brave enough to fight this.

misscrowley that assumes we all agree with girls being in scouting, which i dont. I believe both should have remained single sex.

Single sex organisations are permitted @MissCrowley. Scouts went mixed sex as not enough boys were joining, I’ve never heard of a shortage of girls forcing Girl Guiding organizations to close.

You've misunderstood.

It's mixed sex by stealth.

At least with the Scouts, the boys and girls sleep separately.

What Brownies and Guides do is mix the sexes for sleeping arrangements, under the premise that male children "are" female.

@LizziesTwin I'm not entirely sure how accurate that information is. I originally come from an area where I had to register my son for Beavers at age 3. He's 6 now. I was called last year to offer him his place but unfortunately I'd forgotten and we'd moved about 200 miles away since!
There's no scouts/ beavers near here and as I'm a leader and had to take my son with me a few times he's been gutted he can't join in.
I don't think it's lack of kids wanting to join. Majority of the time it's lack of volunteers. I started up the one in our local area just so my daughter could continue with her girl guiding journey.

@MissCrowley scouts were very clear they were mixed sex

guides insisted they were single sex

the 2 are not comparable

Can you expand please? I refuse to click on a daily fail link.
I'm constantly seeing girlguiding bashed.

The problem is with guides claiming to be single sex but stealthily mixed sex.

exactly what veronica says.

I've also been there and it was a male leader masquerading as a female.
Women and girls need single sex clubs and facilities.
The tide is turning.

Any organisation can choose to be mixed sex or single sex. The issue here is that GG says it's for girls only and doesn't make clear that this means single gender, not sex, and this means parents are not making informed decisions about whether they want their daughters to join and take part in certain activities. With Scouts they know from the outset it's mixed sex.

an example of what the GG policy is:

Biological male teen can join guides as he 'identifies' as female. leader is not permitted to tell other guides or parents that there is a biological male present. the group goes away on camp and that biological male is permitted to share sleeping, changing and washing space with biological females.

If you have a daughter in Guiding, you do have the right to ask for single sex accommodation for her. In fact, I'd say if you don't, it's a bit worrying. If you are a leader, you can also say you will only share a room with a female.

That is a huge victory over the previous position. I hadn't realised they'd caved. Well done indeed Katie. I know this has been incredibly hard but very many parents are greatful for to you for it.

For those not aware, Guides do not differentiate between sex and gender. That applies to adults as well as children. This should not be a secret, everyone needs to know this so that parents can make their own decisions as to whether they think safeguarding is robust enough for their child to attend.

For me the issue isnt that Guides may be mixed sex, its the fact that this is hidden. I would want to know if my daughter was going to be sharing a room with a male and be able to make decisions accordingly. Its the lack of transparency that is the issue for me

I don't see what the issue is. I'm really sorry but I don't. Scouts have been mixed sex for ages. Obviously asking to have female/ male spaces to change, sleep etc is within our rights.

But that wasn't the rule. Scouts openly allow boys and provide single sex accomodation from before puberty. Guides claimed that any male who said they were female was female and did not permit single sex accomodation for guides or leaders (unless the trans person asked for it). I know that seems batshit but I asked this specific question directly about 2 years ago and (after much chasing) got a very clear answer.

I'm a girl guiding leader myself. You can't have one rule for Scouts and demand that they allow females in and not reciprocate.

Its still a completely different rule. Boys are only allowed in guides if they have long hair and say they are a girl.

This is such fantastic news.

I think some posters/voters weren't aware of the previous position (male bodies in female vodied sleeping quarters etc without parents knowledge, and with parents assuming it was girls only.)

Well done!

I'm not entirely sure how accurate that information is.

I would say numbers was probably the deciding factor at the time. Not all groups are oversubscribed and numbers had been declining. There was also a feeling amongst members that it was the right thing to do, but a lot disagreed.

@MissCrowley You are really mid understanding why Scouts went mix sexed in the 90s. Scouts were not forced to go mix sex. They chose to. Because their membership was collapsing and it was the only way they could carry on.

In the town I grew up at the point of the change there were 11 guide companies - all of which had massive waiting lists. And two scout troops - one of which (that my brother was in and my mum helped with) was on the verge of closing due to lack of numbers. (They had 11 - two of which were technically too old but no one was going to kick them out. They needed 12 to cover the cost of the scout hut never mind any kind of activities and the surplus from previous years was about to run out.)

The weekend after the change was announced all the leaders phone most of the hundreds of girls on the guide waiting list (no GDPR in those days!) and offered them a Scout place. 7 took it up and started the following Thursday.

i’ve just checked and now there are 15 guide companies and 6 scout troops in the town. (Population of the town has more than doubled over the last 30 years.)

Massive congratulations on this what a triumph for women and common sense!

scouts weren’t forced to go mixed sex by anyone. They chose to because at that time membership was declining and opening up to girls allowed them to remain viable (current waiting lists/membership are irrelevant, this is a decision which was made many years ago).

the issue op is on about is that Guiding claims to be for girls only but allows transgender women and girls to join and insists that they are female and that nobody has a right to know if they or their child was sharing a room/tent with a person with a penis. Admittedly, OP could have made this clearer in their post.

Guiding is still a single gender organisation (not single sex), boys are only able to join if they “identify” as girls. Whereas in Scouts it’s clear that it’s mixed sex and there are usually separate sleeping/bathroom arrangements, trans members in guiding would share bedrooms/bathrooms with girls with nobody being told.

Male volunteers have always been allowed in guiding, but must have separate sleeping/bathroom arrangements and men can’t be leaders. However a man who “identifies” as a woman can be a leader and there’s no requirement for separate sleeping/bathroom arrangements. Which OP and many others, including myself, believe is wrong.

I find this attitude from a guide leader worrying. It is irrelevant that a higher percentage of sexual abuse occurs within family units, that doesn't mean that child safeguarding should be any less rigorous outside of the family unit.

And saying things like "child sex abuse card" suggests that you do not take safeguarding sufficiently seriously, despite your "four levels of training".

It is not OK for GG to pretend that a male teenager is a girl and can therefore share sleeping etc. facilities with young teenage girls. And even worse for them to go out of their way to hide the fact that male teenagers or male guide leaders are present. I assume they also call anyone who questions this, or is concerned about their daughter's safety, a transphobic bigot.

Biological male teen can join guides as he 'identifies' as female. leader is not permitted to tell other guides or parents that there is a biological male present. the group goes away on camp and that biological male is permitted to share sleeping, changing and washing space with biological females.

This is the issue MissCrowley as you must know. I can only assume you think anyone remotely concerned about safeguarding or girls privacy is a pearl clutching prude. However it's kind of you to reveal how dismissive GG leaders are about this; parents can now decide for themselves whether they trust you to ensure the safety and privacy of girls is protected.