To have a late night / early morning rant about how no sleep is ruining my entire life?

[Notsleepingandnotcoping]

Lying here unable to sleep as have toddler with me. He refuses to go in his cot.

I have a three hour window (you can almost time it to the minute) when he goes to bed where he will sleep. Usually 730-1030. Then he wakes and that’s it.

I can either try to sleep myself then, or get all the other shit done. Either way I’m exhausted but if I sleep I am in chaos. If I don’t I have literally no sleep.

I can’t see friends, have a glass of wine, there is no enjoyment or pleasure in anything at all.

rant and moan and misery, pure misery.

i wish I had never done this.

Rtft

The trouble is with sleep training is it’s hard going but it’s even harder when you are already sleep deprived.

If possible try and take some annual leave so you don’t have to stress about being tired at work whilst you’re sleep training.

@Notsleepingandnotcoping

I’m really sorry you’re going through all of this.

I had very similar with my oldest and I regularly saw me in a crying heap.

I also would pop him in nursery call in sick and sleep uninterrupted and do this for 2/3 days.

Entirely temporary but you might feel a bit better and it might allow you to feel a bit less desolate.

can you get him attached to a massive teddy that he can cuddle when asleep? It helped my older boy - he still sleeps with it.

but I remember feeling like I had no body of my own and it was awful. Constantly being pawed and pulled - I wanted to scream all the time.

Time to sleep train. I recommend gradual retreat.

I haven't read the entire thread but if your child has no additional needs then he sounds like mine, 3 year old always ending up in our bed, one day we explained to him how he is going to be a big boy and sleep in his own bed, that night lots of cuddles and tears then i closed his door (high handle so effectively he was locked in his room) lots of tears the first night but we're a week in and some nights he hasn't cried at all, i needed it as i was exhausted, we all sleep better and it's worth it in the long run

Sorry your having such a shit time op. Poor sleep is the worst.
I hope better nights are coming and I'm sorry you've taken such a beating on here. That doesn't help anyone.

It really isn’t pointless saying that DH needs to do more. My DS would absolutely not settle for anyone but me as well when I was on maternity leave. I was in the same boat as OP - hating cosleeping, utterly miserable, physically poorly and at the end of my rope. I then went back to work where I regularly did nights, weekends and evening shifts. DS had no choice but to settle with DH. It was very tough to start with and his sleep definitely got worse for a bit…but he accepted it very quickly and sleep actually improved exponentially and DH ended up doing all bedtimes (even if I was around) to cement it. DS self night weaned and was sleeping through, in the cot, within a month or so. He’s been a fantastic sleeper since.

I do get that, when things are at there absolute worst, making changes seems like an impossible challenge. I’m glad we were forced to be honest as otherwise we probably would have carried on with the status quo. I agree with PP. Both of you take annual leave and DH is responsible for all sleep - naps and nights. It will be utterly shit for quite a while and you shouldn’t expect miracles. Try it for at least a week, preferably 2 and then see where you are up to. My DH couldn’t quite face Ferber and went for a stay and support approach. No options are wrong though.

I really wish you’d stop saying things like this about yourself.

Things can change.

Even good sleepers have short phases of not sleeping well when they are teething or unwell.

If you are confident that your baby is not teething or unwell then I'd repeat the training that worked to get him back into a good routine rather than assuming that the training has stopped working permanently.

OP I think you need help from another adult for a bit as you are clearly struggling to see a way though at the moment even though other posters have given several good suggestions. That's understandable as you are sleep deprived but it looks to me as though although the problem is solvable you don't have it in you right now to solve it without help.

You sound desperate OP. But you need to be firm and get your child out of your bed and space. Have nice downtime, cuddles and stories before he goes to bed, then he has to go to sleep. If he yells, he yells, he can't physically do it all night, he will tire himself out in the end. It will be hell, but it will work eventually. Just don't give up. At the moment he tantrums and he gets what he wants, you need to break that cycle. You're not alone OP, as you can see, lots of other mums have had similar problems

I really feel for you, OP. My DB was a bastard of a sleeper and kept the whole family awake for entire nights for the best part of 2 years (I'm 10 years older, so remember it well). We lived in a flat and the little fucker kept the neighbours awake, too. My DF fell asleep on the train home from work a few times, and my mother was livid because he'd managed 2 whole hours of sleep while he rode to the end of the line and back again.

DM went to the GP to get something to help her cope, and the GP recommended putting a few drops of brandy in DB's last bottle at night! (This was the 1960s, when valium was routinely prescribed for mothers who weren't coping, so maybe the brandy was a better option.)

What did work was taking him out for a walk in his pushchair late at night, until he dropped off, and then leaving him asleep in it. That would give us all a few hours sleep until he work at 5.30. There are probably shedloads of reasons why sleeping in a pushchair is considered a Bad Thing nowadays, but I think both parents absolutely at the end of their rope is probably a bad thing, too.

DB is still a bad sleeper, and he's almost 66. He still gets up and goes for a walk in the early hours pretty often, and sometimes gets stopped by the local police!

I hope you find a way of managing things, OP. Sleep deprivation is used in torture for a reason - it's absolute fucking torture!

I see controlled crying has been mentioned, I know it’s hated on MN but DS was a PITA when it came to sleeping and we did cc. Took 4 days and was awful but it worked.

DS is 21 now and a well rounded adult and we have a good relationship.

You keep saying DH can't help. He can. When my DD wouldn't sleep, we used to put her in the car and take her to the 24 hour supermarket and walk around there, so that at least we weren't just lying in bed listening to her cry. DH can miss a few hours of sleep one night a week to give you the sleep to allow you to function. Out of the house, so you can't hear him or see him, and get a few hours alone to sleep. DH needs to step up and be an equal part of raising his child, and that includes the shitty bits and lack of sleep as well as the good times. I know that doesn't solve the problem, but you're the one who keeps saying you're sure it's just short term, so it's a short term solution to get you some sleep.

I really wish people wouldnt talk liek CDIO/Sleep training is a guranteed work, For some kids, it just DOESNT.

My child did NOT tire herself out, she was hysterical and stayed up until 4am.

Trying to do it when already exhausted is not going to help OP at all.

I really wish OP that you would go to your GP & open up to them.

You're in a really difficult place at the moment & while you say you don't want 'therapy & tablets' you need some help to address your despair & low mood.

Of course the lack of sleep is impacting. But it's not the full story.

There are countless practical suggestions here. You keep rejecting them & in fact seeing them as trying to attack / insult you.

I get that in the low place you find yourself, you are not ready / able to take on advice

There is a solution. Truly. And while all of us have had moments of frustration with our small DC, 'banging' on the light & 'losing it with him' in the middle of the night is both concerning & wrong.
Please please make a GP appointment.

But there is always a solution that can improve things from where OP is now.

There really is.

She has 1 DC & a DH. They can manage something which may not solve everything but can improve it. Some sleep, some relief, is better than this.

I know the OP can't see the wood from the trees but she can improve this.

What is his nap routine at nursery? You can’t sort the nights out without looking at the daytime naps first. Is he being left to sleep there for much longer than he should be? Does he have a consistent routine there? For example, half hour nap at 10.30am, then an hour from 12.30 until 1.30am…

Or, is he not having an afternoon nap when he needs one, so is falling asleep at 7pm but that is becoming a nap in itself, so he is then waking again.. nursery should he working with you on this

Has he got his own room? I would put him down in his cot in his own room from now on and do controlled crying/ gradual retreat.

yes it will be difficult but it’s the only solution really bar waiting for his sleep to get better in its own.

And how is he generally? Is he a happy child? Does he show distress at going to nursery? Do you have any concerns about his communication and development? Do nursery?

Maybe book yourself into a travel lodge for a couple of nights, switch the phone off and let DH deal with it - he’ll survive - and then you’ll be able to think more clearly and get some support to look at the whole picture

Haven’t rtft but have you tried letting him fall asleep with you then taking him to his room? Not ideal long term but short term anything to get you some sleep if you can’t sleep with him in bed with you. Hell even for the sake of a few good nights sleep I’d bring his cot/bed into your room so when he wakes up you can settle him back in your bed, and stick him back into his

Mine both went through this at 18 months. They'd wake in the night (like midnight or 1am) and just wouldn't go back to sleep. I tried everything - co-sleeping (didn't work they just wanted my attention, for me to get up and play with them), gradual retreat (absolute waste of time for me. I spent 2 weeks sleeping on their floor, inching away each day but again - they just wanted me to get up and play with me). OP - not only are YOU exhausted but your son must be too. Toddlers need a lot of good quality sleep. The only thing that worked for me was controlled crying. Yes it's absolute hell for you and them but usually within a few nights it works. Your son must be over tired and running on adrenaline which makes it harder for him to get deep sleep (and as for you, I'm surprised you're still standing). Once my children started sleeping again their behaviour improved SO MUCH and they were much happier, sunnier toddlers. I'd go for it OP. What do you have to lose. JUst have resolve and don't give in the first couple of nights. Let him know you're nearby and haven't abandoned him and he will eventually sleep. He will learn he doesn't need you there to sleep. It's a painful process but quick and it works.

Girl I know used to put her child in the car, pack a flask snack book and blanket. Car drive was sleep inducer for the baby. Once baby was asleep she would park up, chill and sleep herself. Not an answer but a way to get a bit of downtime.

OP, you sound to me like you may be depressed and that this is clouding your thinking, as well as the sleep deprivation. And little wonder given the epic sleep deprivation you’re suffering.

I say this because of the way you talk about yourself and the way you seem to feel so helpless and hopeless about any possibility of change.

Depression does make us feel like whatever we do, nothing will change. But this is a trick and not a true reflection of reality.

Can you try and get a GP appointment to discuss this? Or do you have an IAPT (CBT) self-referral scheme in to area? I think it would benefit you to get some help.

My friend was married to someone who worked terrible unsociable hours and she worked herself. Felt like a single parent. Had to be strict. Vowed to NEVER take the baby out of his room/cot, no matter what, once he was down for bed. Stuck to the same routine and time each night. She said plenty of times she would be lieing on the floor patting his bum to settle him, no light on, until he went to sleep if he was unsettled. Once he realised the grizzling didn't work he got his routine.