Guardian is publishing Russian Propaganda

[Swayingpalmtrees]

AIBU to be very disappointed that the Guardian has resorted to publishing Russian propaganda. It was shocking to read, largely inaccurate and wholly from the Russian perspective. I am all for listening to all sides, but there was no effort to understand how Ukraine feels, Ukraine's objective is clearly to win the war and reclaim their nation, and blaming the western leaders for arming Ukraine and the bloodshed caused by the Russians is somewhat misleading, Ukraine have every right to defend themselves.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/apr/27/ukraine-war-end-putin-russia-talks

No, that is opinion. Propaganda is in support of, or the party line of, a regime, however obliquely written.

Makes a change from their usual fake news.

Having now read the article I can't see how any right thinking person could consider it anything other that common sense.

It doesnt need to be literal, the art of persuasion and spin is to make something look like its not propaganda.

I dont have a problem with it but people think that if you read something from or about or with some reason to it, about the 'enemy' that this is propaganda. However they dont think the same thing about the allies (or indeed ourselves)

I’ll bet that many Ukrainians wish there had been more negotiation and diplomacy. Not every Ukrainian wants to keep fighting or ever did. Otherwise why did their men need to be prevented from leaving the country?

I think with an adversary like Putin it is a fairly reasonable assumption that this is what would happen.

Still not getting the WWIII vibe from Russia, lots of willy waving and sabre rattling, which is what you would expect given the sanctions and free flowing arms to Ukraine.
As far as the opinion piece is concerned, I read it as exactly that, its an opinion piece, I can't see the US government people who are constantly in touch with Russia paying much attention to it, unless it's written in code

@LemonDrizzleSlice - thanks. I've been reading the thread and the linked articles and just got to your response to me...

I think The Guardian is far less like this description than nearly all other British newspapers.

And its article on Ukrainian morgues overflowing and the photos from Ukraine yesterday seem about as far from propaganda for the Russians as you could get...

Definitely not a propaganda piece. I think the writer makes a few good points. My issue with all of it though is that because everyone is so scared of what could happen it's hard for anyone to be clear on what a good solution is and also that there might not be a good one.

I'm actually getting to the point of feeling that maybe Ukraine should give up some of their land for the sake of peace which I wouldn't have said when it started. It's hard to know what would make Putin stop though. He is completely mad.

I don't disagree with that.

So what do you think should be done, and by whom?

It just seems horrendous to stand by and do nothing. But utter suicide to try to intervene.

I am always amazed at how easy people find it to push for the continuation of war when they are not the ones that are doing the fighting...More guns will only bring more deaths.

I would agree that these are Kremlin talking points - makes Ukraine sound like the puppet of the West, as if Ukraine has no thoughts of its own about its future. The Guardian publishes a range of stuff and quite a lot of it is toss. I am not sure this is technically propaganda, but it is certainly toss.

I'm actually getting to the point of feeling that maybe Ukraine should give up some of their land for the sake of peace which I wouldn't have said when it started. It's hard to know what would make Putin stop though. He is completely mad.

Why do you think he is mad ? He could just be bad ? Or if the rumours are true, very sick ? He is also coming to the end of a very long reign, fuelled mainly by fear.
Lots of people have lied to him about very big things, some are no longer alive, some are in prison and some are hiding. He doesn't need to worry about those people. But the people who have lied and lied well, they are still close to him. Interesting times ahead for Old Vlad.

From my personal perspective, I find people in the West espousing and defending Russian propaganda very upsetting. It's not possible to pander to bullies and get good results. Negotiations will end this war, but it should be on Ukrainian terms also, not just giving that psychopat everything he wants.
And arms embargo certainly didn't stop war in my country, Nato air strikes and our and Croatian army gains did. Then we did negotiate successfully, and all negotiations failed before that.

Putin lied and lied before he invaded. Said he wasn't going to invade. The US and UK insisted that he was. And then - he did. People like him don't want negotiation or diplomacy, unless it gives them the totality of what they want.

When will people understand that Putin doesn't want peace, or to "save face". He wants to win.

I thought the article made some very good points and think it’s a shame that every time anyone puts forward a viewpoint that isn’t in line with sending more and more weapons to Ukraine they get slated and called a mouthpiece for Putin. Every war and every side in a war uses propaganda. Remember the story about all the neonatal incubators being looted from hospitals in Kuwait and taken to Iraq ? About tiny premature babies being thrown out of them and left to die ? It made the front pages of every paper in the UK. All sworn to by doctors and nurses who had witnessed it. Except they didn’t - it was all a lie. All propaganda invented to create hatred and fuel public opinion to justify a war. Nobody in their right mind agrees with the horrific invasion of Ukraine by Russia, but nobody in their right mind ignores the fact that for a chance of peace then lines of communication have to be opened which offer all parties something at the end of it.

Absolutely agree OP. The Russian-apologist drivel passed on as 'opinion piece' in every bloody paper is shocking.
Same with BBC, especially Radio 4. So disappointing.

Nobody but nobody has a right to say what Ukrainian people should or shouldn't do. It's their country, their lives and their future.
Some half-witted and poorly informed western hand-wringer has no say in it. End of.🤬

Outside the West this piece wouldn't be considered particularly pro-Russian, let alone propaganda. Have a look at the votes in the UN concerning this war. Outside the West and the Americas the world is decidedly neutral or pro-Russia. Take, for example, the vote to remove Russia from the UNHRC. The African vote:

5 for
24 abstain (including South Africa)
8 against

A Chinese friend tells me that the consensus there is pro-Russia.

It's pretty disappointing, to be honest, bit then people around the world remember the Iraq war and think sauce for the goose etc...

This. 100%

It is not as if there hasn't been peace talks. Both sides and all sides have been talking peace since day 1 except Putin keeps violating his word or not agreeing and then committing atrocities and blaming Ukraine. This is still happening.

Peace talks is not some brain wave unless you really haven't been following the news. FFS

I think I overstated my previous post. There was widespread condemnation of the invasion originally. But look at who the abstainers included even then. Not just China. India, South Africa, Bangladesh, Pakistan and again a whole bunch of African countries. I worry that it reflects decreasing influence of 'the West'.

I'm actually getting to the point of feeling that maybe Ukraine should give up some of their land for the sake of peace

They already gave up the Crimea. Maybe they should give up Kiev? Or their industry? Or their parliament building. Then maybe Putin will turn his eye on Finland and Sweden as he's threatened. What would you like them to give up? Or maybe he will eye up the UK and he'll want something from us to keep the peace. Maybe we should give them your house or your bank account or your kids. I mean it's all for peace after all.

@Laetitaleghorn, yes, that's the way to go. The Russian-apologist hand-wringers without even slightest hint of understanding of the geopolitical situation, yet who still believe that their witterings should be heard, should be the first to give up their worldly belongings.

I'm sick of people who pretend peace talks at this point are anything other than entirely futile. It's laughable.

Do you have connections to the region? Because I do and I do have a pretty good understanding of the geopolitical situation there and I don't find this piece to be particularly Russian-apologist, hand-wringing propaganda. We need to find a solution and the solution is not trying to get into a bigger war, as it will be the civilians on all sides paying for it.

Really informative thread, threads like this always makes me feel really ignorant…
@FatherBuzzCagney Your posts are really interesting, what do you think in regard to the comments made yesterday by Sergei Lavrov? Do you think there’s a genuine risk of the UK getting bombed?