To ask why having an elective C-Section is so frowned upon?

[Rosesandbutterflys]

I am (hopefully) having an elective C-Section soon. First baby, don't want anymore children after.

I've always had a fear of child birth, which over the past 5 years has been compounded by a lot of people around me having children and the vast majority of these (though I appreciate I'm probably unlucky here) have been pretty traumatic births that have ended in severe tears, forceps and a lot of the time, an emergency section anyway. Granted their experiences have mostly been better on their second birth/ child.

Nothing and I truly mean nothing about natural childbirth/ labour appeals to me. Not the hours of pain, pushing, potential rips/ tears, forcep intervention, epidural (yes I appreciate I'd have one of these for a section), damage of my pelvic floor and the panic and stress of potentially having to be rushed to theatre because it just wasn't going to happen naturally and the baby is in distress or whatever.

Now don't get me wrong, nothing about a c-section appeals to me either, it's absolutely no walk in the park and I'm dreading it, but it has to come out some way and I am a person that likes to plan things and to somewhat be in control/ aware of the plan. I have also had abdominal surgery before (though not as severe as a C-section) and I know recovery is likely to be painful and slower than if I were to have a natural birth. But for me, this is the preferred/ lesser of the 2 evils option.

I have also spent hours pouring over research as to the benefits of a vaginal birth over a c-section and last night came across a NICE/ NHS study/ research that found that actually, for a planned/ elective c-section, the risk to the mother of a c-section compared to a vaginal birth is pretty much the same. It states that the risk of the baby ending up in NICU with a C-section is 13.9% compared to a vaginal birth which is 6.3%, so double the risk, BUT it says the research does not take into account the fact that most c-sections undertaken are for medical reasons and therefore the likelihood of the baby needing NICU attention after it's born is increased anyway.

It then went on to say that the risks of an unplanned, emergency C-Section are a lot higher than a natural birth/ elective/ planned C-Section. So I guess if each woman was guaranteed to have a straightforward, natural birth, then great, but a lot of women do end up needing an emergency c-section so, technically they are more at risk than someone who has chosen an elective.

This now seems like I am bashing natural delivery and I'm not at all I totally admire and respect women that chose that route, I only wish I were that brave.

However, the responses I have had from people my whole pregnancy when I have admitted I am opting for an elective C-section have been ridiculous. Not one person has responded positively, all I've had is 'Oh, really? Are you sure??' and 'Oh, why on earth would you elect to have that?' etc etc. Or just a stony faced, tight smile and 'oh right' making it clear they disapprove but not actually coming out and saying it.

I got told last night that the reason I'm getting these reactions is because a C-section is 'taking the easy way out '😕

If that's the case, why on earth wouldn't you? Why is it that it seems the prerequisite to being a good mother is seemingly having to martyr yourself all the time?

So many of my friends that have had children and also the women in my NCT class who are preparing for their births have all expressed dismay/ distress at having to have any pain relief, they all want it to be as natural as possible and I know my friends that haven't had 'textbook' births still harbour 'guilt' and sadness to this day. Why? If you need gas and air or an epidural, so what? What exactly am I missing? If they ended/end up with forceps or an emergency section, it's not their fault, it's just one of those things. Surely modern medicine has provided these things to make childbirth safer?

Anyway, gone off on a tangent now but if you disapprove of someone having an elective c-section, could you tell me why?

I had a c section and loved it because I got to go to sleep.

But, I would not elect for one because:

1. no "massage" that loosens baby up via birth canal, and hinders breastfeeding due to baby being stiff (happened to me), and breastfeeding is important for gut health and immunity. I would not, personally, want to make this more difficult.
2. No vaginal mucus which is again important for immunity.
3. Operation shock to system and best avoided where possible.

Those are my reasons because of what's important to me and my experience.

Use or lose as you see fit.

This sounds really gloaty. Your poor SIL. What a horrible post.

I don’t disapprove! I had one and I’ll have another. It was bloody brilliant and there is zero chance of convincing me to do it the other way. Nope. Nope. Completely the right choice for me. Good luck!

I don’t accept the argument that it’s more costly to the NHS, as far as I’m aware the cost calculations don’t take into account after care required to treat traumas caused by vaginal birth.

Attitudes towards c sections urgently need to change as they are causing real harm to women and children, as evidenced by recent shocking reports on maternal care.

I was 41 when I had my c section because as far as I was concerned the stats on birth outcomes from vaginal births simply weren’t good enough for FTMs of my age. Although tbh I probably would have made the same decision if I’d been ten years younger as like you I’ve never had any desire to have a vaginal birth.

We had a “gentle” c section - a playlist of songs that my good friends gave to me at my baby shower, the curtain was lowered and we saw the surgeon lifting out our son (we have an AMAZING photo one of the anaesthetists took), my partner cut the cord and we had skin to skin. It was extremely calm and I never felt anything other than completely taken care of.

Recovery was hard work the first week, but it honestly wasn’t that long before I felt more physically capable than in my third trimester, when I’d had PGP.

Absolutely yellow.

The latest NHS Maternity scandal identified an ideological obsession with natural birth as one of the reasons that caused the deaths, life changing injuries and disabilities of mothers and babies and yet here we have posters still pushing that rhetoric.

Mothers should be given the facts, pros and cons about giving birth - just facts not emotionally charged, judgemental, ideological views - then the mother decides which option she wants, her body, her giving birth, her choice and NO judgment whatever that choice may be.

As for the poster who claimed it was selfish for women to choose an ELCS when a woman is giving birth too damn right she should selfishly choose what is right for her.

It's not a competition about who did it best with medals being awarded ffs.

Yep, shot of morphine on the way out for me too.

I actually had a shower the second I walked though my front door while I had a fighting chance of being able to climb over the side of the bath without being in pain. The next day, I felt like i’d been hit by a bus so I was glad to be clean at least.

This was my third though, dh wasn’t with me for the birth anyway as he had to stay with the other two (I wanted him to stay with them as we have no family/friends here and I preferred going into theatre alone ) - and I knew to expect to be treated like shit on the postnatal ward after the first two, sadly.

In some ways it was a relief to be home, but I could have done with that electric bed for a couple more nights instead of struggling to get in and out of mine.

I had to carry dd though the hospital to
the front doors myself too (dh wasn’t allowed in the building due to covid rules, had to
wait in the car park). I honestly thought I would drop her.

They reluctantly sent someone with me to carry my bags after I pleased with them.

And I’m sorry that your dh was sent away so soon - I would have felt awful if that had been our first.

I have to agree with @TortugaRumCakeQueen

I have a sneaky feeling, that if men had to push babies out through their penis, (and suffer all that went along with that, for the rest of their lives), that we would have already invented a much easier way for child birth to happen.

If DS1 had been a ELCS instead of my "low risk" spontaneous labour we'd have cut out 13 hours of labouring on a short-staffed ward, transfer to a consultant room for a couple of hours of obs before rushing for an EMCS, then baby's obs on NICU and my 36 hours in HDU which were cut short because they couldn't justify my 1:1 MW when they were 14:1 on main ward. There were then 3 further days on main ward.

ELCS would have been an appointment when convenient to the team (and not midnight Saturday to Sunday lunchtime), a simpler surgery not involving a baby stuck in the birth canal, a lot less complications for me and baby and home roughly 24 hours later.

In the absence of a crystal ball there was no reason not to try nature doing its thing, but it cost the NHS a lot more time/ staffing/ money than a ELCS while baby and I were in good condition, compared to being exhausted and compromised.

Exactly.

How many more "resources" did my emergency c-sections, one of which was under GA, and which had a subsequent NICU/ICU stay, use -- all because I was encouraged to go the "natural" route?
DC3 was born via ELCS and it was a calm, lovely experience.

And there are plenty of us like you. Both of my attempted vaginal births cost the NHS a great deal more than ELCS would've done. I am not of course advocating for universal ELCS on cost grounds, nor even just for higher risk women who would need more complex and expensive care when attempting VB. But people who assume women opting for ELCS is dearer and more resource intensive than women attempting vaginal birth need to show us their working out.

Basically, if you're going to make the cost argument, make it properly. And tell us whether you'd advocate for all women having ELCS if it could be shown that it would cost less.

A lot of people seem to have very specific ideas about what you should and shouldn't do. I had a lot of horrified responses when I told people I was bottle feeding and wouldn't be attempting breastfeeding. Do whatever is best for you and your family. Best of luck ❤

The more I read women’s experiences the stronger the argument for ELCS becomes imho. A scheduled procedure with full complement of staff seems far safer and cost effective in the context of the NHS.

I would judge if you and baby were low risk because it costs a tonne of money, is major surgery just before what is often a challenging time of life and increases the risk of baby or yourself having serious complications. I’d rather take a few hours or pain but you could opt for an epidural and not even have the pain (although you would be increasing the risk of complication). Also, I imagine there’s not an abundance of NHS surgeons on all maternity wards, what if someone needed an emergency c-section to save their or their baby’s life? It’s unlikely but it would worry me.

I had an elective c section with my child, it was the best thing for me and I had no desire to go into labour or have a vaginal birth. The NHS tends to prefer vaginal due to the cost I think but my section was a good experience and I healed well afterwards, personally I don’t think it matters as long as mum and baby are safe and healthy.

They are a lot more expensive. I don't think it would be a good use of NHS resources for every birth to be a c-section.

(not relevant, but I MUCH preferred my vaginal birth to the elective c-section previously)

Agreed. Quite possibly the nastiest post I've ever seen on MN, which is really saying something!

Totally agree, my attempted 2nd vaginal birth would have cost the nhs a lot I imagine by no fault of my own..

4 night stay, multiple attempts at induction to no avail, Eventually I.v drip to start labour ending in an emergency section.

I think an elective this time is deffinetly more cost effective

I have had an emergency section then two vaginal births and anyone who thinks a c section is an easy way out is an idiot. My section wasn't a choice situation as it was to save baby's life but it did have consequences which people don't tend to think about.

I was offered an elective section with number two but no way was I having one.

And there are plenty of us like you. Both of my attempted vaginal births cost the NHS a great deal more than ELCS would've done. I am not of course advocating for universal ELCS on cost grounds, nor even just for higher risk women who would need more complex and expensive care when attempting VB. But people who assume women opting for ELCS is dearer and more resource intensive than women attempting vaginal birth need to show us their working out.

Basically, if you're going to make the cost argument, make it properly. And tell us whether you'd advocate for all women having ELCS if it could be shown that it would cost less.

Quote chain is getting a tad long!

Basically I was told in hospital after DC2 that it was open choice on any future birth 3. As my 3rd degree tear, rough forceps was counted as a successful VBAC, VBAC was a valid option again. Equally, having already had a CS and getting a nasty birth injury, there'd be no deterrent against ELCS. (Prior to guidence change)

With my history ELCS would be cheaper than risking a third emergency trip to theatre from spontaneous labour and at least a month of being wiped out in recovery including HV home visits from heavily compromised mobility.

I shall virtously save the NHS costs and any further trauma to my body by retiring my bleagured uterus 😂
Seriously though, with SPD and heavy revovery births by either exit, it was a major factor in deciding that two were ample enough for my body.

I never gave a toss what anyone thought. I never even considered a vaginal birth, and paid to go private to ensure I got exactly what I wanted and didn't have to explain myself or beg for a c/s. I never felt the need to explain it to anyone, and I cannot understand the pressure some women come under to have a vaginal birth. I luckily never had such pressure from friends or family, but when I arrived at the hopsital in labour a midwife did ask me if I would like to "try and do it the natural way". My answer only needed one word.

In the course of my work I quite often speak to women who have lost babies, and some of them would have been saved if the woman had been properly listened to. Sometimes they were not listened to because of the huge emphasis on "natural" birth. It is quite heartbreaking and makes me quite angry.

By all means have a vaginal birth if you can and want to. But in this day and age in a developed country, it should be the women's choice.

I think it’s normal to feel fear - but better to try and see if you can do it than never challenge yourself? No one looks forward to the pain but that isn’t the dominant memory for anyone I know who’s had a vaginal birth. If there are other medical reasons why it’s not safe for you to have a natural birth, then of course that’s different.

Gosh, what an arsehole. Shame your amazing surgeon couldn’t have given you a personality transplant at the same time.

(Breastfeeding mums are allowed to eat steak and drink wine, by the way 😀)

Before I was even pregnant, I knew I wanted an elective c-section. I was horrified at the uncertainty of a natural birth - would I tear/being out of control, etc?

In the end, I had twins. One was breach and one was transverse. The consultant made a point of telling me that even if I had wanted a natural birth I couldn't have had one. I got the impression he told me that to make it clear I hadn't "chosen" a c-section (even though I definitely had!).

Even though I was very scared of the c-section, it was a lovely, peaceful, amazing experience. No pain, very rapid recovery (running around pushing the babies' trollies the next day), tiny scar.

There is a stigma with "choosing" a c-section. If anyone asked about my birth plan, I just said "oh, I'll do whatever the doctors recommend".

but better to try and see if you can do it than never challenge yourself?

I find this an odd position. I never 'challenge myself' to feel avoidable pain in any other situation.