To ask why having an elective C-Section is so frowned upon?

[Rosesandbutterflys]

I am (hopefully) having an elective C-Section soon. First baby, don't want anymore children after.

I've always had a fear of child birth, which over the past 5 years has been compounded by a lot of people around me having children and the vast majority of these (though I appreciate I'm probably unlucky here) have been pretty traumatic births that have ended in severe tears, forceps and a lot of the time, an emergency section anyway. Granted their experiences have mostly been better on their second birth/ child.

Nothing and I truly mean nothing about natural childbirth/ labour appeals to me. Not the hours of pain, pushing, potential rips/ tears, forcep intervention, epidural (yes I appreciate I'd have one of these for a section), damage of my pelvic floor and the panic and stress of potentially having to be rushed to theatre because it just wasn't going to happen naturally and the baby is in distress or whatever.

Now don't get me wrong, nothing about a c-section appeals to me either, it's absolutely no walk in the park and I'm dreading it, but it has to come out some way and I am a person that likes to plan things and to somewhat be in control/ aware of the plan. I have also had abdominal surgery before (though not as severe as a C-section) and I know recovery is likely to be painful and slower than if I were to have a natural birth. But for me, this is the preferred/ lesser of the 2 evils option.

I have also spent hours pouring over research as to the benefits of a vaginal birth over a c-section and last night came across a NICE/ NHS study/ research that found that actually, for a planned/ elective c-section, the risk to the mother of a c-section compared to a vaginal birth is pretty much the same. It states that the risk of the baby ending up in NICU with a C-section is 13.9% compared to a vaginal birth which is 6.3%, so double the risk, BUT it says the research does not take into account the fact that most c-sections undertaken are for medical reasons and therefore the likelihood of the baby needing NICU attention after it's born is increased anyway.

It then went on to say that the risks of an unplanned, emergency C-Section are a lot higher than a natural birth/ elective/ planned C-Section. So I guess if each woman was guaranteed to have a straightforward, natural birth, then great, but a lot of women do end up needing an emergency c-section so, technically they are more at risk than someone who has chosen an elective.

This now seems like I am bashing natural delivery and I'm not at all I totally admire and respect women that chose that route, I only wish I were that brave.

However, the responses I have had from people my whole pregnancy when I have admitted I am opting for an elective C-section have been ridiculous. Not one person has responded positively, all I've had is 'Oh, really? Are you sure??' and 'Oh, why on earth would you elect to have that?' etc etc. Or just a stony faced, tight smile and 'oh right' making it clear they disapprove but not actually coming out and saying it.

I got told last night that the reason I'm getting these reactions is because a C-section is 'taking the easy way out '😕

If that's the case, why on earth wouldn't you? Why is it that it seems the prerequisite to being a good mother is seemingly having to martyr yourself all the time?

So many of my friends that have had children and also the women in my NCT class who are preparing for their births have all expressed dismay/ distress at having to have any pain relief, they all want it to be as natural as possible and I know my friends that haven't had 'textbook' births still harbour 'guilt' and sadness to this day. Why? If you need gas and air or an epidural, so what? What exactly am I missing? If they ended/end up with forceps or an emergency section, it's not their fault, it's just one of those things. Surely modern medicine has provided these things to make childbirth safer?

Anyway, gone off on a tangent now but if you disapprove of someone having an elective c-section, could you tell me why?

@Quackpot just shows how different we all are! I had 3 sections and we took all 3 DC to the zoo for the day when DC3 was 8 days old. We did legoland when he was around 2 weeks old. I was walking the school run with a double pram after 10 days. Absolutely fine recovery, very little pain I think I stopped taking paracetamol after 7 days. Went home the next day all 3 times.

I have had an emergency C section (1st child) and a vaginal birth (2nd child). Both were painful and traumatic in equal measure, to be honest. I recovered faster from the vaginal birth though.

I've no idea why some women want to "experience childbirth" naturally, without pain relief. These are the same women, who would pop a paracetamol for a headache, or who would absolutely want anaesthetic for surgery or a tooth being pulled out.

I have never experienced pain like I did with my vaginal birth, it was so horrific that I thought something must have gone wrong, and I didn't think I was going to live. I had no pain relief, despite begging for it, because the midwife said there wasn't time.

If I had my time over, I think I would consider an elective C section, despite the horrendous recovery time.

Who is asking you about what birth you're having?

I'm currently 7 months pregnant with my 2nd and nobody has asked me what birth I plan to have, nobody asked me during my first either

I don’t know why they do, but they do. Jealousy in some cases I think. It is major abdominal surgery, which should be avoided if possible, I guess.

I was induced, and then endured a long labour and forceps. Ended up with an emergency section. This time I’m having a section due to that experience.
Wish I could have cut that shit out and just gone straight for the section.
what a different experience I’ll have this time round! Luckily I felt back to normal 7 days after my section. Hope you recover well too. Stick to your guns and ignore other people’s opinions. Pregnancy/birth/parenting are all very individual.

Birth is a very personal choice and balance of risk.

Personally I don't see a c section as an "easy way out" at all. It's major surgery and everyone I know who's had one has been struggling in pain for weeks after while trying to look after a newborn. Not fun. I had both mine vaginally. I was scared before the first one but it turns out I labour extremely quickly (still horrendously painful tho)! Only just got to hospital in time with the first :( Second I planned a homebirth and turns out it was a very good decision as there's no way I would have made it to hospital (1.5hrs from first contraction to birth and midwives only just arrived in time to catch the baby). It was unbelievably painful and I got no breaks in between contractions, but I had no tears or other injuries and baby was born completely fine. Recovery time basically zero I was up and about within a few hours. I'm happy with the choices I made and no way would I choose a section.

The problem is you don't know which you're going to get, so each woman has to balance up the risks for herself and make that decision. I had a lot of negative comments about choosing a homebirth with people saying I was crazy, reckless, endangering baby etc. But it was the safest choice for me and baby due to my personal circumstances.

I think when people are telling you risks of section, it's more so you don't think it's the easy way out (if that makes sense). There will be lots of times where it is the right choice, but equally in straightforward low risk pregnancies to make the choice for major surgery simply due to feeling scared of birth ... it seems like it's introducing more risk of complications where its unnecessary.

it seems though you have risk factors which indicate section would be best for you? Good luck whatever you decide

To answer the question, I think it's seen as prioritising yourself over your baby. As you said, studies have shown that the outcome is likely to be better for baby to have a vaginal birth. There are also added things like elective c sections tend to be earlier than the due date so you don't go I to labour etc.

But if you think having a vaginal birth more than increases your risk of PND. That's not good for your baby either.

I wanted an all natural birth and ended up with a c section. I have permanent nerve damage and it will cause me pain forever as far as doc thinks. It certainly wasn't and isn't easy. But I obviously don't regret it, I didn't have a choice, my baby was I'm danger. I think if I had chosen this I would hugely regret it. I question whether or not there was anything I could have done different prevent needing the section.

It's a truth that if you discuss any decision you have made you have to be prepared for some people to criticise and advise something different. Also if they ask you a question about any decision, they might just have a vested interest or an opinion they want to share.

If you don't want to feel pressurised into doing everything as other people advise (which is impossible as people's opinions vary) just get used to shrugging your shoulders and not offering up information about your decisions to be analysed and dissected as a matter of course.

I’ve actually had catty marks about my section and birth choices which I think were jealousy to be fair. We met up in a pub garden when DS was 3 weeks old. SIL arrived with DN who’d been born a few days before DS . I was looking fairly glamorous and relaxed as DH had been off work and doing his share of the care and DS was a very easy content baby , we were really enjoying it . SIL is pale , exhausted and both her and baby looked dirty. She scowled at my glass of wine and said ‘aren’t you breastfeeding?’ I smiled and said I wasn’t as it was nice to share care equally , I then told her how nice it was to have gone for my first swim that morning as the surgeon had left me so tidy that I’d barely bled post birth only a few days and no after pains ( suction is a wonderful thing) and DH and I were already enjoying sex again. She had tried to make me feel inferior by saying she’s pushed baby out and breast fed her but she was torn to shreds and looked totally shattered bless her, so it had the opposite effect and I was mega grateful for the way I’d done things. I had two big glasses of wine and tucked into a massive steak dinner before going for a lovely walk through the fields without my son because I could. I have a neat little scar and a couple extra pounds on my midsection but otherwise completely unscathed and undamaged. Didn’t want any more and I’ve been done to make sure of the fact , but I’d never birth any other way. It was so quiet and dignified too . No screaming or risk of pooing infront of DH either which I just couldn’t have coped with.

This. Imagine if everyone having a baby had elective caesareans? This would leave a shortage of surgeons etc for emergency situations/sections.

I had an emergency and then a planned c-section and they were both really positive experiences.

Its a great way to birth a baby! And the only way you get a few days to rest in hospital afterwards nowadays!

I just don’t get it either.

I have known lots of women who were proud to have had no pain relief, or who were dead against any form of pain relief.

Why? I honestly don’t get it.

You wouldn’t have a tooth drilled without pain relief, why go through pain just because it’s childbirth?

I had a midwife once who said that all women should experience the pain of childbirth. I honestly don’t understand why it’s so fetishised.

I’d argue with your point “these are the same women who would pop a paracetamol for a headache…”

why are you lumping them together? You have no idea LOL.
Also, totally irrelevant to this thread.

I think it’s about choice and doing what’s right. Csection isn’t the easy option it’s major surgery.

Due to my medical condition I’m not allowed to give birth only option is C-section - so for me that choice has been removed.
Personally I would have loved the opportunity to have tried. Most of my friends/family that had given birth had all good feedback - ranging from quick labour and no pain relief to epidural & long labour. But these are my friends experience you have different friends experience. I’ve had two very different experiences around my planned C-sections one amazing one not so much - often I feel the bad parts of the csection I can’t talk about as I’m made to feel slightly it was my choice (even though it wasn’t!)

i do understand i always feel people give me a judgment as I had two csection but I really had no choice but it isn’t any of there business !!

@Gizacluethen the problem is that this is based on incorrect data as studies lump all c-sections in together. Risk to baby is higher with emergency c-section as baby can already be in distress after trying vaginal labour or c-section is required due to low growth/ placenta issues/ pre eclampsia so outcomes for baby are worse and babies more likely to end up in NICU.

it’s unfortunate there are no studies showing impact of planned c-section close to term and vaginal birth. Women are making decisions based on flawed data.

I too had a section during covid. Didn’t let me say goodbye to OH after the surgery, just wheeled me and baby away, he had to ask if he could say goodbye and they wheeled us back reluctantly. Then put me in the ward with baby to far for me to reach her and I couldn’t use my legs yet then 5 hours after surgery I asked for a sick bowl so I could brush my teeth and was told no it’s about time you got up now anyway. 12 hours after the section I was sent home with a shot of morphine, which made me feel like I was magically unscathed from major Surgery couldn’t believe it untill a few hours passed and the pain hit me like a dump truck.. it’s not fair the way some of us were treated

I think some people forget that an elective C section doesn't just mean opting out of a vaginal birth.

I had an ELCS because my baby was footling breech and I have a bicornuate uterus which meant it wasn't even possible to attempt an ECV. It was apparent from the get go that this is what would be needed so from 12 weeks pregnant the plan was always an ELCS unless baby turned and even then I'd have probably still opted for one just in case of birth complications due to uterine shape.

A lot of people scorned me and told me I was taking the easy way out.

It's not a race to the bottom. Whatever gets baby out in the safest and best way possible for each individual mother should be how it goes and any one else can keep their nosey beaks out.

Had an emergency and an elective section. Yes, the pressure was immense and I think it's even worse now (was 15 years ago) People who think C Sections are an easy option are hilarious IMO. I'm sure vaginal birth is also not easy. I don't comment on it though as I have no experience of it. You do what you need to do OP, it's no one elses business.

This. Imagine if everyone having a baby had elective caesareans? This would leave a shortage of surgeons etc for emergency situations/sections

Honestly so angry at this shit.

Firstly everyone having a baby would never choose to have an elective caesarean so it’s a stupid example.

But even that aside, everyone has to always choose whichever option is cheapest for the NHS regardless of their own well-being? Don’t be so ridiculous.

besides which, elective Caesareans are always turfed out of the list for emergency caesareans.

do you say the same about epidurals because it takes an anaesthetist away from a potential emergency situation?

So shit. I had my section during covid too. At least you got your baby in your arms straight away 😪my husband had to leave too.
I waited alone for 14 hours until my baby came down from the special unit to meet me.

I personally couldn't care less how someone gives birth. But yeah, too many people fixate on non issues.

It’s about use of resources. One method entails a resource burden the other does not, and that resource has to be funded.

If everyone had ELCS we'd cut out the most complex and expensive births altogether. The NHS could plan ELCS dates and times according to what would be easiest and cheapest, and would get better at managing ELCS complications if everyone had them.

Obviously it's stupid to pretend universal ELCS would ever happen, but if you're going to do it, cost it properly.

Because people are nobs.

On what planet does attempting VB not entail a resource burden to the NHS?

I've had two crap attempts at pushing a baby out. One was EMCS after 2 hours of pushing and a trip to NICU/ HDU for us, and my VBAC with good odds and lots of encouragement was another trip to theatre where a rough forceps delivery just had the edge of a rough EMCS, and the resulting tear left me crawling up the stairs from aggravating SPD, and shitting in the shower for a month until I could finally risk leaving the house and being more than two minutes away from a toilet. EMCS after a long labour and complications left me too weak to even carry baby on the stairs for two weeks, but that was nothing to the pain of The Tear.

Fair play to anyone who wins birth roulette who gets to breathe baby out with minimal/ low level interventions and swerve birth injury (just don't victim blame women that don't breathe properly as can happen), but thats the thing, it is roulette and it depends on mother/ baby/ resources that day.

ELCS is guarenteed surgery, causes scarring and needs recovery time. Worse than a good "natural delivery" but a heck of a lot better than EMCS in labour or so many vaginal birth injuries. Having scarring on both ends, I'd go ELCS if it was ever necessary again. I was reluctant for birth 2 for some not very rational unfinished business emotional issues, but also because there was a temptation for a larger family and considering long term odds with multiple CSs.

Having reached an age where my family and most families I know are "complete", the most consistently reliable positive birth experience has been ELCSs often for second births following EMCS or medical concerns. Spontaneous labour is a big gamble. Induction can often be long and come with interventions, especially if earlier.

There is a huge amount of martyrdoom in the world of mothering, and people do often feel irrationally threated that other people's choices are a judgement on them. Plus the orginal sin cultural undertones. Sod other peoples' judgements. If you and your care providers agree that ELCS is a good method of birth, go for it.