To ask why having an elective C-Section is so frowned upon?

[Rosesandbutterflys]

I am (hopefully) having an elective C-Section soon. First baby, don't want anymore children after.

I've always had a fear of child birth, which over the past 5 years has been compounded by a lot of people around me having children and the vast majority of these (though I appreciate I'm probably unlucky here) have been pretty traumatic births that have ended in severe tears, forceps and a lot of the time, an emergency section anyway. Granted their experiences have mostly been better on their second birth/ child.

Nothing and I truly mean nothing about natural childbirth/ labour appeals to me. Not the hours of pain, pushing, potential rips/ tears, forcep intervention, epidural (yes I appreciate I'd have one of these for a section), damage of my pelvic floor and the panic and stress of potentially having to be rushed to theatre because it just wasn't going to happen naturally and the baby is in distress or whatever.

Now don't get me wrong, nothing about a c-section appeals to me either, it's absolutely no walk in the park and I'm dreading it, but it has to come out some way and I am a person that likes to plan things and to somewhat be in control/ aware of the plan. I have also had abdominal surgery before (though not as severe as a C-section) and I know recovery is likely to be painful and slower than if I were to have a natural birth. But for me, this is the preferred/ lesser of the 2 evils option.

I have also spent hours pouring over research as to the benefits of a vaginal birth over a c-section and last night came across a NICE/ NHS study/ research that found that actually, for a planned/ elective c-section, the risk to the mother of a c-section compared to a vaginal birth is pretty much the same. It states that the risk of the baby ending up in NICU with a C-section is 13.9% compared to a vaginal birth which is 6.3%, so double the risk, BUT it says the research does not take into account the fact that most c-sections undertaken are for medical reasons and therefore the likelihood of the baby needing NICU attention after it's born is increased anyway.

It then went on to say that the risks of an unplanned, emergency C-Section are a lot higher than a natural birth/ elective/ planned C-Section. So I guess if each woman was guaranteed to have a straightforward, natural birth, then great, but a lot of women do end up needing an emergency c-section so, technically they are more at risk than someone who has chosen an elective.

This now seems like I am bashing natural delivery and I'm not at all I totally admire and respect women that chose that route, I only wish I were that brave.

However, the responses I have had from people my whole pregnancy when I have admitted I am opting for an elective C-section have been ridiculous. Not one person has responded positively, all I've had is 'Oh, really? Are you sure??' and 'Oh, why on earth would you elect to have that?' etc etc. Or just a stony faced, tight smile and 'oh right' making it clear they disapprove but not actually coming out and saying it.

I got told last night that the reason I'm getting these reactions is because a C-section is 'taking the easy way out '😕

If that's the case, why on earth wouldn't you? Why is it that it seems the prerequisite to being a good mother is seemingly having to martyr yourself all the time?

So many of my friends that have had children and also the women in my NCT class who are preparing for their births have all expressed dismay/ distress at having to have any pain relief, they all want it to be as natural as possible and I know my friends that haven't had 'textbook' births still harbour 'guilt' and sadness to this day. Why? If you need gas and air or an epidural, so what? What exactly am I missing? If they ended/end up with forceps or an emergency section, it's not their fault, it's just one of those things. Surely modern medicine has provided these things to make childbirth safer?

Anyway, gone off on a tangent now but if you disapprove of someone having an elective c-section, could you tell me why?

Spontaneous labour is a big gamble. Induction can often be long and come with interventions, especially if earlier.

I had three spontaneous labour's that went well - and I agree there's no way of really knowing that before hand - but given a choice having heard many women's experince of induction I'd opt for elective c-section rather than induction.

I’m not sure I ‘disapprove’ OP, but the reason I feel somewhat negatively towards choosing a planned c-section, is that the hospital picks a date for when to remove the baby from the womb. With natural birth, it is the baby who triggers the process, once it’s ready. The hospital deliberately select an earlier date, and by definition, removes the baby before it was ready. As a result, babies born by planned c-section have a higher risk of breathing difficulties. So I suppose my negativity towards choosing this situation is that it places more importance on the mother’s preferences than on the baby being ready to be born. Also I’m wary of how the mother is made into a passive patient instead of working her way through a natural process that, if it goes well, isn’t a medical problem.

Not telling anyone how to give birth (and I’d suggest you just dodge the question with either an airy “oh no one can really predict the future can they” or a confrontational “wow what a personal question”), and of course c-sections are often necessary, but that’s a reason why you may encounter negativity.

I do wonder if there is some kind of primal biological drive into trying your chances with labour. Safe medical CS is a recent phenomenon, and certainly as a comparable option in a pre-emptive way. Although CS has been around for millenia it was a last-ditch attempt to save life.

I would have replied differently to this thread 10 years or so ago between DCs when I optomistically chose the VBAC knowingly gambling on a good recovery, but it's like my brain was in a baby-bubble at that time. When DS2 was a few years older and the broodiness stopped, a lot of the emotion dropped too.

That sado-masochist drive has now switched to running and the compulsion to run a marathon because that's what 40 year old women do 😂

To be fair, a marathon would be a bit longer than labour 2 and a hell of a lot quicker than labour 1, coz no way would I spend 40 hours doing a marathon! 😂

@ZoeCM @waterlego sorry but why is it gloating and being an arsehole to talk about how wonderful her c-section birth was bit you’re not calling out the poster ok this thread who gloated her natural birth was what women were born to do and she felt like a queen or the poster who feels sorry for women who have c-sections and don’t get to experience the wonders of natural birth.

what should she have said instead? Oh yes you are so superior to me I am not a real mother as I didn’t have a vaginal birth and am not breastfeeding. I look and feel fine because I’m a fraud. You’re the proper mother here. I apologise for being happy enjoying my baby food and easy recovery???

The double standards are so obvious for posters here.

My c/s was amazing. I had an epidural which stayed in for three days and then went home and got on with life with my baby. No pain ever at any stage. I never felt the need to submit myself to avoidable pain to do something which I had no interest in doing. Of course many women very much want to have a vaginal birth, feel very happy about having done it, for all kinds of reasons. So they are, quite understandably, prepared to go through some pain to do something which is important to them. That great, we are all different. More power to them too. The point is that everyone should have free choice, without some being pressured or made to feel they are wrong or inferior in some way.

At least you don't come across as smug. Did you also announce that your fanny is 'honeymoon fresh'.

My experience is similar to the person who had a positive c-section experience.
Just a very minor pain, dull pain after the c-section. I took the regular meds I was offered for the first few days. Had a shower the same day as the c-section, then pretty much back to normal from the next day.
Someone else mentioned they couldn't pick their baby up to bathe it - I was home alone, so had to do it all, carrying twins up and down stairs etc (and luckily had no pain, so it was no issue).
I also just measured my scar, since the 12 inches mentioned above sounded big. Mine is less than 6 inches (for a twin birth), and very neat, with no "pooch".
I guess I must have been lucky to have had such a positive experience, but just sharing to let others know this experience is also a possibility.

I do wonder if there is some kind of primal biological drive into trying your chances with labour. Safe medical CS is a recent phenomenon, and certainly as a comparable option in a pre-emptive way. Although CS has been around for millenia it was a last-ditch attempt to save life.

Wouldn't surprise me. For most of human history, getting your stomach sliced open with a sharp thing hasn't exactly had positive connotations! The concept that it's often actually safer than not getting your stomach sliced open with a sharp thing is a very new one.

Massive fan of electives here. Not actually had one - mine were all varying degrees of emergency - although the last one could be arguably a prem ELCS.
But it's a choice and I didn't find the CS too hard to recover from. Of course no milk came in for 5 days (they were all early ) and yes there was a scar and I have bad adhesions. But on balance I think I would chose that over the uncertainty of natural birth.

@hangrylady yes it’s great she is not as smug as a previous poster who said she felt like a queen after her natural birth and it’s the most natural thing a woman can do or the poster who felt sorry c-section women don’t get to experience wonderful natural births. Oh yes I forgot vaginal births are lauded. Anyone with a good c-section birth must stay shamefully silent in case they upset anyone who had a vaginal birth. 🙄🙄

Some sympathy for a new mother who'd had a rough time no matter the birthing method wouldn't have gone amiss.

The tone of the post in the way the comparisons were made were unkind, in very poor taste and very superficial.

You can feel grateful that you made the right choice for your circumstances without patronising someone who's in a difficult position.

For those commenting on costs:

C-section £400 cheaper

Ignore everyone and have your planned C-section.

Like you I was utterly terrified of the prospect of a vaginal birth, but my fears were just laughed off or brushed aside as being 'normal'. I now know that they weren't normal, and my extreme fear, I believe, stopped my labour progressing normally and I ended up having an emergency section after 40 hours of labour.

My poor baby had a dreadful birth and endured a labour that went on far too long. My second was a planned C-section and it was calm, uneventful and much, much better all round.

Good luck and enjoy your birth experience - and ignore all the nay-sayers! x

As to why some women choose not to have pain relief - I was more scared of being out of control than I am of pain. The thought of being knocked out on pethidine or immobile from an epidural during birth was terrifying to me, I wanted all my wits about me. It increases the risk of intervention for which I would have to trust that doctor was having a good day and did a good job (and knowing how stretched the nhs is and all the horror stories of things being botched i thought that was a big risk to take)! I would rather be fully clear headed In control and in horrendous pain, than be incapacitated and pain free. Again though that's a completely individual choice and is going to be different for every woman. Theres no right or wrong way and i dont think anyone should be judging another womans choices.

I'm due to have an ELCS in a few weeks, after a difficult vaginal birth the first time. I had failed ventouse, forceps, an episiotomy, 3b tear and 2.3l PPH. My bladder stopped working afterwards and no one could tell me why or if it would ever recover. I went home with a catheter and leg bag which ended up being changed several times because it kept leaking (including all over my husband at night). A week later, I'd had enough and phoned the hospital in tears, at 2am, standing in a pool of my own urine and was called in for the day and readmitted for the night. I'd already been back in for a day by then. I had to go in one more time afterwards. My baby daughter spent her first two weeks being dragged back and forth from home to hospital (breastfeeding so couldn't leave her). The physio who saw me later diagnosed bruising and nerve damage as the cause. The bladder did recover, but I still have leaking two years later. I had a prolapse too- improved only after many months of intensive physio. Here's how I see it:

It took me three months to be able to sit down anywhere without a gutter cushion. My stitches also got infected - the GP told me this is very common. After a month my back gave in too - physio found the cause in my completely trashed pelvic muscles. The back was compensating for that, until it went into spasm - to say this is excruciating is an understatement. This started in December and I was still having intensive physio in May. I couldn't do anything like go to baby groups, play on the floor with my daughter, or even walk far with her. I could hardly pick her up from her crib or pram, and could hardly push the pram. To cope with the pain I was on codydramol plus paracetamol, and using my TENS machine for hours every day - for months. What's more- of our NTC group of 6, another girl had similarly extensive injuries to me. Her baby also had to be resuscitated. The two who had sections recovered long, long before I had, and better. Another one had an episiotomy and only one had a birth that didn't need intervention. So yes, vaginal birth recovery can be easy, if you have a straightforward birth. It can also be absolutely awful. No one tells you that, whereas the C section risks and disadvantages are bandied around ad nauseam.

Which leads me to the second point: 1 in 3 first time mothers have an assisted birth with forceps or vacuum, according to the RCOG. Women are nearly three times more likely to experience urinary incontinence for more than 10 years following a vaginal delivery rather than a caesarean section. I wonder how many women are told this?

And - in the long term it costs the NHS about the same to treat incontinence following birth than to perform a C section. Which says a lot, given NHS provision for physio treatment after birth is woefully inadequate. I had to pay for private treatment to get any better, and I'm fortunate my work private insurance covered it. Imagine what those costs would be if the required level of physio was actually provided through the NHS. It would dwarf the cost of a C section. Not to mention the cast of thousands who have to scramble into theatre when vaginal birth goes wrong (as seen above - often).

I really wish I’d had one. 11 years in and nothing works properly still.

good for you OP. Hope you heal well x

I said upthread that nobody should judge and there are no prizes either way. I certainly didn't feel like a queen after my DH saw me shit myself twice while giving birth 😯This poster just seems particularly smug.

I didn’t actually see those posts but they sound a bit much too. Will go and have a look.

It’s one thing to be pleased with the way one’s own birth went, but quite another to slag off one’s SIL for looking tired and dirty. No idea what personal hygiene has to do with vaginal births. Also couldn’t understand the mention of eating steak and drinking wine as that clearly has nothing to do with the subject.

Of course, nobody should have pain relief they don't want. The morphine after my EMCS made me feel sick so I decided to do without any more because I'd rather be sore than heaving.

Yes. I recall reading the brochure they gave me for inducing (I was fully against it because they didn’t have any evidence pertaining to my pregnancy) and made it out as it being a natural way and I told DH “how is having medicine put in your body forcing it into something it is likely not ready for natural?” but consultants pushed for it anyway and I was lied to when I went in wanting to change my mind, being refused to simply examine me to find out my bishop score which would have been done if I had gone for a sweep at the same time. It failed after three days, 3 cm, emergency c-section and all the things they said they were “concerned” about despite the test they chose showing no evidence of issues were right. I reported them and 7 years on, still don’t know why they induced me and the hospital couldn’t tell me either. It was more painful when they put the plastic thing in than it was my labour pains and that should have been a sign that my body wasn’t ready.

With both of my sons, there was always some hcp who thinks they know my body better than me or or telling me I possibly couldn’t know and me proving them wrong. I even had a consultant give me a lecture on something that was already discussed and agreed by two separate hcps. Either he ignored my chart and what was on the system or he saw this and thought he could go back and say he changed my mind. I called the hospital instead and told them I didn’t want to be under his care.

I think a massive problem is people still believing that women know little about what they need and what is going on with their bodies that they feel we can’t make the best decisions for ourselves and babies.

Women are constantly ignored when it comes to their own health and even more so when pregnant. There are countless stories of women being coerced, neglected, and told they’re wrong about what is going on in their own bodies during pregnancy, labour, childbirth, and even post-birth. It’s legal gaslighting imo but people will excuse the bad hcps because they’re human while ignoring the cost to women and children.

*sorry, codydramol plus ibuprofen

@BogRollBOGOF yet the same is not shown to women who had c-sections? Maybe if she wanted sympathy and compassion she shouldn’t have tried to make that poster feel inferior and judge her birth and feeding choices and try make her feel like she wasn’t a proper mother.

There’s definitely one woman trying to make the other feel inferior in this story, and it isn’t your SIL.

I have no idea why anyone would care about how you give birth, or why you would care about their opinion.

I do wonder if there is some kind of primal biological drive into trying your chances with labour. Safe medical CS is a recent phenomenon, and certainly as a comparable option in a pre-emptive way. Although CS has been around for millenia it was a last-ditch attempt to save life.

I think I was more focused on post birth - bf - due to family conditions best bet for baby and me- and getting up and about and carrying toddlers etc.

i spent most of first pg being told I'd have to have a c-section as they suspected Placenta previa to be told last scan few weeks before it clearly wasn't so back to default of VBAC at MW led unit - there wasn't really any discussion just isn't that good now.

Even post birth there there's so much out of your control - I had different bf problems with eldest two - but it felt more controllable.