To ask why having an elective C-Section is so frowned upon?

[Rosesandbutterflys]

I am (hopefully) having an elective C-Section soon. First baby, don't want anymore children after.

I've always had a fear of child birth, which over the past 5 years has been compounded by a lot of people around me having children and the vast majority of these (though I appreciate I'm probably unlucky here) have been pretty traumatic births that have ended in severe tears, forceps and a lot of the time, an emergency section anyway. Granted their experiences have mostly been better on their second birth/ child.

Nothing and I truly mean nothing about natural childbirth/ labour appeals to me. Not the hours of pain, pushing, potential rips/ tears, forcep intervention, epidural (yes I appreciate I'd have one of these for a section), damage of my pelvic floor and the panic and stress of potentially having to be rushed to theatre because it just wasn't going to happen naturally and the baby is in distress or whatever.

Now don't get me wrong, nothing about a c-section appeals to me either, it's absolutely no walk in the park and I'm dreading it, but it has to come out some way and I am a person that likes to plan things and to somewhat be in control/ aware of the plan. I have also had abdominal surgery before (though not as severe as a C-section) and I know recovery is likely to be painful and slower than if I were to have a natural birth. But for me, this is the preferred/ lesser of the 2 evils option.

I have also spent hours pouring over research as to the benefits of a vaginal birth over a c-section and last night came across a NICE/ NHS study/ research that found that actually, for a planned/ elective c-section, the risk to the mother of a c-section compared to a vaginal birth is pretty much the same. It states that the risk of the baby ending up in NICU with a C-section is 13.9% compared to a vaginal birth which is 6.3%, so double the risk, BUT it says the research does not take into account the fact that most c-sections undertaken are for medical reasons and therefore the likelihood of the baby needing NICU attention after it's born is increased anyway.

It then went on to say that the risks of an unplanned, emergency C-Section are a lot higher than a natural birth/ elective/ planned C-Section. So I guess if each woman was guaranteed to have a straightforward, natural birth, then great, but a lot of women do end up needing an emergency c-section so, technically they are more at risk than someone who has chosen an elective.

This now seems like I am bashing natural delivery and I'm not at all I totally admire and respect women that chose that route, I only wish I were that brave.

However, the responses I have had from people my whole pregnancy when I have admitted I am opting for an elective C-section have been ridiculous. Not one person has responded positively, all I've had is 'Oh, really? Are you sure??' and 'Oh, why on earth would you elect to have that?' etc etc. Or just a stony faced, tight smile and 'oh right' making it clear they disapprove but not actually coming out and saying it.

I got told last night that the reason I'm getting these reactions is because a C-section is 'taking the easy way out '😕

If that's the case, why on earth wouldn't you? Why is it that it seems the prerequisite to being a good mother is seemingly having to martyr yourself all the time?

So many of my friends that have had children and also the women in my NCT class who are preparing for their births have all expressed dismay/ distress at having to have any pain relief, they all want it to be as natural as possible and I know my friends that haven't had 'textbook' births still harbour 'guilt' and sadness to this day. Why? If you need gas and air or an epidural, so what? What exactly am I missing? If they ended/end up with forceps or an emergency section, it's not their fault, it's just one of those things. Surely modern medicine has provided these things to make childbirth safer?

Anyway, gone off on a tangent now but if you disapprove of someone having an elective c-section, could you tell me why?

On the 'selfish' front too, I wonder if this plays into the idea that women should just put up with things rather than advocate for what's actually best for themselves. There's a long-standing culture of women not wanting to rock the boat or cause a fuss, or perhaps wanting to but not feeling that they are able to or supported to do so so we just agree so as not to be seen as difficult, and that seems to spill over into childbirth too.
Women's health issues are already treated appallingly in some situations.

I had 2 vaginal deliveries and 2 c sections. No choice over any of them - they were all heavily managed hospital births (pesky little blighters have never done anything easily).

My only caution would be about scarring. I've been left with absolutely horrific scar tissue (adhesions) around my pelvis, that's left me having painful periods, and issues with bowels. No one told me that it was a possibility or a likelihood. Speaking to others, it's remarkably common. And recovery isn't easy when you're exhausted. Not being able to drive, pick up baby and bathe them is pretty shit when you're left alone.

I don't understand why anyone would choose major abdominal surgery over a few hours of discomfort - but the whole point of maternity care is that the woman feels in control, so as long as you're happy with your decision, why does it matter?

This. I completely disagree with elective c sections on the nhs. No one likes the thought of giving birth, that’s part and parcel of having a baby though. I don’t get how it should even be an option to choose to have extremely expensive, major surgery to remove a baby when the pregnancy and birth is expected to go fine.

In my experience, OP, the only people who hold anything other than neutral views on c-sections, elective or otherwise, are those who have absolutely no experience of labour or motherhood beyond what they've encountered in fiction. PP here is a case in point. Thank you for that vacuous, GCSE RE-level take, @Ihatethenewlook, you're welcome to it. Here's hoping you're never forced to re-evaluate it the hard way.

SIL had opted for elective but went into labour so quickly they couldn't do a CS so she had a natural birth anyway. Be prepared for that OP.

Having elective surgery rather than leaving matters to reach the emergency surgery stage is also advised by surgeons - it has better outcomes for the patient, is less risky, more gentle, calmer and less traumatic.

For the immoral amongst us who only care about £ not human lives, it's also cheaper to provide elective rather than emergency surgery.

I wonder if this plays into the idea that women should just put up with things rather than advocate for what's actually best for themselves

original sin. We’re meant to suffer.

it’s the best marketing campaign in the history of humans.

YANBU. You know you, you do you. The NHS sometimes prioritises natural birth over C section too much, especially with first births. It's policy, but it's been proved that in quite a lot of individual cases, elective c section should have been considered and wasn't, resulting in emergency c section anyway. It has added to this ridiculous shaming that somehow C section is 'easy' or makes you not as worthy as a mother who underwent vaginal delivery, especially if they did it 'naturally'. As far as I'm concerned, whatever pain killers are available, take them. I held off for a long time during my first delivery because I knew the Entonox would make me nauseous, and therefore wore myself out fighting the pain, so when it came to pushing I felt like I had nothing left. Second birth, I told them as I walked into the delivery suite that I wanted an epidural! 😂

I have had 2 ELCS, but was debating a VBAC for my second

all the friends I spoke to about it we’re also saying ‘why on Earth would you’ about risking a natural birth. Especially the ones who had experienced both types of birth

So it probably comes down to people just generally liking to be a bit judgy or wanting to espouse an opinion if offered the opportunity.

Don’t feel a shred of guilt for the cost of your ELCS, just as men never feel a shred of guilt for drunken or sports injuries being fixed
(not to mention that the net cost of all birth types is largely the same, because c-sections don’t have as many ongoing costs to fix injuries)

Had two vaginal births. First was awful, painful, pain-relief taken away from me and forceps used and left me traumatised. Second birth planned to have an epidural so I didn’t have to experience it again, but child came pretty quickly so there wasn’t time and just had gas and air. A lot easier than the first birth, but post-birth, my blood pressure plummeted and I had the resuscitation team rush in which was also terrifying. If I were to do it again, I think I would opt for a caesarean if possible to ensure constant monitoring. I imagine my PND after the first birth would not have been so severe had I had a caesarean.

But the point is that vaginal birth is not 'a few hours of discomfort' for many women. For quite a few it is, but for others it's months and years of pain, incontinence (both urinary and faecal), prolapses, PTSD. If it was guaranteed as just a few hours of discomfort, I think most women would happily opt for that!

I'd ignore what anyone else thinks as it's irrelevant
And please ignore NCT people as I've heard so many ridiculous stories, one includes a bf advocate who was helping mums really struggling with bf and she thought it was fine to tell them to bf because otherwise your body thinks your baby has died 😳
I had two sections, one emergency and the other was planned after it was clear second child was following suit of older sister re delivery issues, they're both fine and as you say, I'd the data you've read doesn't split off elective sections from emergency sections it is an irrelevant number as it's skewed with babies with problem births
Good luck

I don't understand it either. I had an emergency csection with my first and an elective with my 2nd. After the trauma of the first and also other birth stories from friends and family, I had zero desire to give birth naturally. The elective was wonderful, calm, I was out the next day.

C-section is classed as MAJOR abdominal surgery, with 6 weeks before you should drive. 3-4 days in hospital after the surgery.

Just as a counterpoint to this…
I was out of hospital within 24 hours of both my c-sections, driving within 2 weeks and back exercising before 6 weeks
yes the first 48 hours were difficult, but not painful if you take the tablets and don’t try and over do it

Out of my friends, those who had ELCS had easier recoveries than EMCS, and anyone who was fit/healthy/normal weight before their pregnancy had very little trouble with recovery
a friend who was very overweight had infections and problems, but mostly because her size made it harder for tjr incision to heal properly

No judgment here OP. Equally, I expect to not be judged for being absolutely terrified of CS. I would have happily ripped my right arm off to avoid surgery like that to my abdomen.
To each their own - and you should tell people that if they get too invested.
Do you think maybe your feelings are heightened a little bit by the pregnancy and you’re reading into it? I ask that as someone whose emotions were all over the place with my first pregnancy - I nearly lost friendships over it. If asked say “C section. What about you/what would you prefer?”

Take care and enjoy your pregnancy!!

Also the ‘don’t tell anyone’ - why shouldn’t she be able to have a normal conversation about her birth plan? Why do you posters think she needs to hide that she’s getting a c-section?

OP can ignore the advice it's less don't tell more don't give unnecessary opportunities to receive ill informed judgemental comments that undermine your confidence or raise your blood pressure. OP bith plan will also happen most birth plans are utter waste of time that no-one bothers to even read.

IME people will just judge frequently give horror stories or try emotional pressure in effort to sway you to their viewpoint and don't want to hear stats or actual information just undermine your choice -not just around c-section of even giving birth but many especially early parenting decisions.

After the birth - there may be occasional judgement/surprise, but people tend to behave better because it's already happened - they don't have hope they'll influence you to change your decision.

If OP has made the decision and discussed it with medical team does it really matter what others think.

I am bemused and jealous of the none birth intervention euphoria experience - I had two births no interventions at all and didn't get that - but they were HB and a better experience less stressful and quicker recovery than first which was MW led unit which I counted as a benefit.

The NCT have a lot to answer for re. C-sections.

My C-section and NCT classes were a few years ago now, but it was firmly expressed to us that C-sections were bad for the baby. The baby would miss out on the beneficial contractions, journey through the vagina etc and would have more complications post-birth etc.

The NCT suggested that C-sections were a choice with only one acceptable outcome (choosing a 'natural' birth). They said that it was pretty safe to give birth to breech babies vaginally with the right midwife.

If I had listened to the NCT, my breech baby may not have made it.

I agree @Hugasauras. I can’t help but think natural birth vs CS has been costed without taking long term birth injuries into account or the culture of women delaying seeking treatment and in some cases managing them independently and never asking for NHS care or being dismissed by HCP’s. I realise I’m in danger of detailing the thread here but not taking womens health issues seriously is a real problem and certainly in the context of birth injuries.

I’ve had both and for me the vbac was a walk in the park compared to the section. I don’t judge you though because I think maternity services are so stretched that some women do have awful experiences and end up feeling the certainty of a section is a better path to take. But I do believe a v birth that goes well is much easier on everyone and what I’d really like to see is a system where all women get one on one midwife care in a safe space during pregnancy and labour to limit pain and stress and allow informed decisions to be made. If men had babies …

I actually had no idea one could just opt for a C section if there was no medical need for it.

Because having a natural birth can be incredible. When you manage to do it all and your baby comes out easily and you’re both up and walking with hardly any after affects , you feel like a queen. I never got it until I fell pregnant and started reading all about it. I also had friends who had amazing births. You know you actually get a high when labour starts? It’s one of the most normal and natural things a woman can do.

Saying ALL of that, I also COMPLETELY get you. Sometimes the other stuff makes you feel ok about missing out on all of that. My personal plan for number 2 is to wait until labour starts naturally (so I know baby is ready) and if it doesn’t all happen nicely within a certain time frame, go straight to c section. All the shitty bits in between I agree were a bad idea. I hated the part in hospital (which I could have been at home or in a nice birthing suite where it’s all dark and private). I loved starting labour though.

Also prepare for the horrible c section pooch, ugh!

Wise words!

if people ask, just say “that’s a personal question! Let’s change the subject please”

honestly, if you learn one thing from this is that your decisions about your birth/body/baby are NOBODY’S BUSINESS BUT YOURS!

practice being in this zero fucks zone… you’ll need it

Just as a counterpoint to this…
I was out of hospital within 24 hours of both my c-sections, driving within 2 weeks and back exercising before 6 weeks
yes the first 48 hours were difficult, but not painful if you take the tablets and don’t try and over do it

Sorry this is not a typical experience. 48 hours after my C-section I was still having strong painkillers given to me as suppositories in hospital.

The hospital would not even let C-section mothers leave hospital until 3-4 days. I was begging to go home (couldn't sleep in hospital, so was deranged with sleep deprivation after 2 days) and they refused.

I don't know what hospital would let you go home after 2 days.

Exercise with a 12-inch abdominal incision still healing after 2 weeks - you are superwoman!

Not sure what the medical advice about that would be though. I doubt a doctor would support that.

Imagine if man gave birth! It would be very, very different.

The NHS only recently changed the rules. They used to try and keep c sections in each hospital below a certain statistic, putting women through anything to try and avoid it (even if she had a strong chance of ending up there). The good thing now is they have no reason to do that so should help women go to a C-section more quickly.

I personally don't know any women who have elected for a cesarean for their first baby. Their second or third but not for first. You sound like a very anxious person @Rosesandbutterflys & sometimes ignorance is bliss.

FWIW.
I've had two vaginal births. One I was induced, on a drip and no pain relief at all. The other, I went into spontaneous labour, extremely painful, had pathedine & an epidural. Both times I had no tears, so needed no stitches and no intervention! You don't know how it'll go until you go through it.
Personally giving birth naturally for me, is the most empowering thing I have ever done and I appreciate it isn't for everyone but that's my experience. I have against a woman who choses an elective of course.

I wanted a natural birth because I am afraid of medical procedures and did not want to be on drugs. I don't think it's the more moral choice or anything like that - it's just what I knew would be better for me. If you know that a c section is better for you, go for it!