To basically demand super-flexible working hours

[Flatbrokefornow]

I am very privileged in that I don’t have to work to pay the bills (although only just, and not for much longer at the rate things are increasing!), but less privileged in that I’m widowed with no family close by. I’m completely on my own.

Now my DD is in secondary school, I’d like to think about going back to work, to fund a few treats and get my pension and DD’s education fund back on track, and also for my own fulfilment.

BUT, I won’t consider working school holidays. I know people do, and all power to them, but it won’t work for us, yet. (My DD has been diagnosed with anxiety, is being assessed for ADHD and has also lost her father. She’s got enough to cope with) We’ve tried holiday clubs in the past, and the effects on her anxiety are just not worth it for our family. She’s just 11, and while she (probably) won’t set fire to the house, and I’m happy to leave her for short periods occasionally, I can’t really just expect her to stay home alone all day everyday. There really isn’t anyone I can ask. Lone parenting makes forming friendships difficult, I’m an only child and my parents live abroad. I have lovely neighbours, who will do the odd favour, but that’s not exactly a solid plan going forward.

is it a non starter? I was thinking of retraining, but given the restrictions I can work, I’m not sure it’s worth bothering. Who’s going to want to employ me? Especially if any of the interview panel are blokes who never even think about childcare (and it’s common, let’s face it) and just think I’m either coddling her, or a spoilt princess that wants holidays off. I have considered working in a school, but in all honestly I don’t think I could spend all day managing children’s behaviour and then come home and manage DD (who can be very rigid and oppositional) with the level of patience I’d need and enough energy to hold boundaries with her. I don’t think that would be fair on her, or sustainable for me.

I’m currently looking at careers with flex time, working from home, or short term/part time contracts. I wouldn’t mind buying extra leave, or taking a pay cut, but my family will come first and I would leave a position which didn’t allow or follow through on me not working school holidays (in the main. The odd day will probably be doable) without hesitation. Is this even possible? How can I phrase it so that my boundaries are clear, but not sound entitled? How can I reassure an employer that I’ll do my damndest for them in my working hours, but that’s all of the time they are buying from me, and it’s not about money for me. Are my only options very casual, or leaving a job every July?

@LegMeChicken I'm in quite a niche area and it's difficult to get cover. I've never seen a mat leave covered, for example. It's definitely bad management though I sympathise a bit because if you can't get the staff then you can't, and when they do run recruitments they tend to appoint people who want term term or summers off.

Public sector comes up again and again as flexible. DVLA are months behind, so are Passport Agency. Why would that be other than the employees are having a good old skive 'wfh'. Rees Mogg is correct. Go back to the office and stop using wfh as a no cost form of childcare.

I supplied many many government agencies over the years as a supplier. Anything like working from home, flexible hours would be massively abused.

Im guessing life insurance paid out or something. Anyway. No you can't DEMAND flexible hours.

It is totally possible to get a term time job that isn’t in a school. Lots of jobs offer flexible working and it’ll usually say in the job description if they do. Apply, go for an interview and then discuss what kind of flexible working arrangement you want at the point they offer you the job, then it depends how much they want you as to how flexible they’ll be.

Another option is temping/casual 0 hours type work. Then you can just turn down any hours that don’t suit you.

Good luck!

What are you good at/interested in. I am self employed web developer and work around school hours. I reduce my work during school holidays and work around the kids.

Well, It kind of is a life style choice though. Even if clubs aren't ideal for her if she is in mainstream education then she is able to be in one even if you or her or both prefer her not to be. You are not saying what kind of role you'd be looking at but many firms offer hybrid working. I think you'll find (fingers crossed) that employers are much more flexible these days and most offer some kind of hybrid working.
Another optionn is a nanny for school holidays. It doesn't have to be hugely expensive. Many students do nannying over the school holidays, we have had some lovelu uni students that have helped us. It is so hard to juggle it all, I completely understand but if there is a will there is a way, even if it takes compromising.

I'm in the public sector. My daughter sounds similar. She is also an introverted bookworm.

I work part time and post pandemic I simply work from home during school holidays. This way I'm on hand for emergencies and take a long lunch break to spend with dd.

I work hard, and I work my hours. This arrangement suits all and has no impact on my ability to do my job. It can be done.

good luck

If you went into ANY employer and said "I demand super-flexible working hours", you'd get short shrift from most.
I think only education or self-employed would be able to accommodate the hours you want.

What area is this roughly (education, healthcare, social service) and why do they keep hiring people who can’t do the job? Does nobody else want to work there? V curious.

This actually sets women’s advances back several years. Sustainable flexible working means good work practices etc.
Not ‘shove it onto others’. I’d be inventing fake children and taking summers off too, or looking for others jobs if I worked there.

You can do agency work and decide not to work during the holidays.
You can use a mixture of annual leave and just not being available to work.

I do this. I'm a nursery agency worker. I can pick the days I want to work. If I don't have enough annual leave I just take it unpaid.

And I bet everyone claims that they’re a ‘great employee’. Nobody ever admits to being a skivver 😂

THIS.

what the fuck is going on OP?

I doubt the op will return now.

THIS.

what the fuck is going on OP?

I doubt the op will return now.

Re skiving and the public sector, I would have said exactly the same about my public sector employer being a good employer before the pandemic and being able to WFH. Our IT kit was rubbish so most people were in the office. But there was always flexibility around fixed hours / term time etc. When you are working you’re expected to work effectively, which is exactly what the OP says. The flex is that if your contract says you finish at 2pm to do the school pick up then you will be able to leave at that time. And if you need to do the school pick up and then work again later you can also do that with flex. That’s not skiving, and in return you get a mainly loyal workforce (and when you can’t pay the best, this is part of how you attract good staff).

Secondary school office? No management of children's behaviour. You would have to speak to children but behaviour would be dealt with by teachers etc. Good luck.

You're not being unreasonable, it's totally understandable, but be aware these jobs are like hen's teeth. Good luck x

What jobs in your area have your search for with "term time only" as the criteria? I would suggest schools, colleges, universities or support services for those (cleaning, catering, transporting etc). Alternatively the public sector (council, civil service) may have such roles as well. I think you have to start by finding jobs that advertise for term time only - not by going for any job then asking they accommodate you unless they are zero hours contracts (cafes, service workers in hotels, etc).

She doesn’t need a job, she’s already got two.

Aren’t people who work in school offices etc expected to work through the holiday now? My friend works in a management / admin role and gets ordinary holidays.

Can you freelance? You can pick your hours and work rate then…

Indeed I was, and most unpleasant it was too. I was asking about whether I should take payment for before-school childcare for a neighbour (which I thought wasn’t legal, but it turns out it is, as the child is eight) so now we are back breaking even, which is such a relief. It did highlight that my finances are somewhat precarious , though.

And I do have an employed role, for my step-father’s company, doing whatever he needs doing in the U.K. Often things, like replacing light bulbs, letting in trades or checking over empty units. He pays me monthly and understands I cannot do things in the holidays, unless they are small or very urgent. It gives me an income and I’m cheaper than agency fees, who charge a percentage and fortune for little jobs like that (he’d do them himself if he lived here). I do the same sort of thing for other ex-pats he knows on a self employed basis. I also have a pension from my late husband. I consider this a pretty privileged work life balance, as it’s generally a few days a month. However, he’s selling up, and most things can be done online now.

Until recently, this has been enough, because little kids don’t need a lot of money mostly your time, and I am able to spend ages sourcing secondhand clothes and making things from scratch etc etc etc. but only just enough. I’d always planned to ‘do something’ when DD was around this age, but it looks like that something is not going to be working for someone else, because the general consensus is that going into a job with a non-negotiable need for term time only is unreasonable. I regret the use of demand. It’s aggressive and unhelpful, but what else do you call a non-negotiable condition, and it’s only fair to be upfront about it. It would be really unreasonable to put in a request for leave for most of July and august out of the blue, and then leave if it’s not granted! I feel I have a genuine and justifiable reason to work term time only, and to put my daughter first, but many people feel that’s an entitled attitude. I imagine many colleagues would be miffed at me having first crack all the holiday leave (although I doubt they’d like to trade!) and I do understand that.

I will come back with a post about skills, I’m not ignoring it, but I felt this needed a response. I really appreciate everyone’s time and thoughts, and I wouldn’t like anyone to feel taken advantage of.

Schools are crying out for exam invigilators just now. I thought it was a summer term only thing, but recently met someone who does it year-round at a large private school. She loves it. Not great pay, but it keeps her busy and requires enough attention to detail that she feels she is making a difference.

It's impossible to advise on whether this is realistic without knowing what field you'll be looking at, and what skills, qualifications and experience you have. My partner has a couple of senior colleagues who have been able to negotiate very favourable working arrangements - including not working particular times of year - because they have the experience and contacts to bring in a lot of business to the company. That's relatively rare in most industries, and in some fields it just wouldn't happen at all. So the question is whether you have any prospect of getting past the interview stage if you tell prospective employers that you can only work term times.

If you have very desirable skills and experience, you might get somewhere. If you have a fairly standard CV and are applying for general admin jobs, for example, you're probably not going to get very far at all, and yes, would need to look at casual/short-term work. Would it not be better to look for a part-time job where there would be fewer days to cover over the holidays?

As an employer I may be pissed off if I interviewed you for a full time job and then you said you could only work 39 weeks a year - you would have wasted my time and your own. Please tell any potential employers before you get interviewed so they can decide if they want to take it further.

Realistically OP you either need to go for a position that has term time working as part of the T&Cs, or do some freelancing / contracting. Term time working is really hard to find outside of education. You're right that you can't just bowl up and ask for all school holidays off, even if you're not expecting them to be paid.
Good luck!