To basically demand super-flexible working hours

[Flatbrokefornow]

I am very privileged in that I don’t have to work to pay the bills (although only just, and not for much longer at the rate things are increasing!), but less privileged in that I’m widowed with no family close by. I’m completely on my own.

Now my DD is in secondary school, I’d like to think about going back to work, to fund a few treats and get my pension and DD’s education fund back on track, and also for my own fulfilment.

BUT, I won’t consider working school holidays. I know people do, and all power to them, but it won’t work for us, yet. (My DD has been diagnosed with anxiety, is being assessed for ADHD and has also lost her father. She’s got enough to cope with) We’ve tried holiday clubs in the past, and the effects on her anxiety are just not worth it for our family. She’s just 11, and while she (probably) won’t set fire to the house, and I’m happy to leave her for short periods occasionally, I can’t really just expect her to stay home alone all day everyday. There really isn’t anyone I can ask. Lone parenting makes forming friendships difficult, I’m an only child and my parents live abroad. I have lovely neighbours, who will do the odd favour, but that’s not exactly a solid plan going forward.

is it a non starter? I was thinking of retraining, but given the restrictions I can work, I’m not sure it’s worth bothering. Who’s going to want to employ me? Especially if any of the interview panel are blokes who never even think about childcare (and it’s common, let’s face it) and just think I’m either coddling her, or a spoilt princess that wants holidays off. I have considered working in a school, but in all honestly I don’t think I could spend all day managing children’s behaviour and then come home and manage DD (who can be very rigid and oppositional) with the level of patience I’d need and enough energy to hold boundaries with her. I don’t think that would be fair on her, or sustainable for me.

I’m currently looking at careers with flex time, working from home, or short term/part time contracts. I wouldn’t mind buying extra leave, or taking a pay cut, but my family will come first and I would leave a position which didn’t allow or follow through on me not working school holidays (in the main. The odd day will probably be doable) without hesitation. Is this even possible? How can I phrase it so that my boundaries are clear, but not sound entitled? How can I reassure an employer that I’ll do my damndest for them in my working hours, but that’s all of the time they are buying from me, and it’s not about money for me. Are my only options very casual, or leaving a job every July?

You haven’t said what your skills/ work experience are. What can you offer to an employer? There are loads of jobs which are flexible but you need to be able to actually do them.

retrain and start your own business, that way freedom lies....

I think you need to recognise the number of employers who verbally agree to some arrangement and then change their mind. There have been many threads about this, and it is more likely given the return to nearer normality post pandemic.

I think you do need to think about self-employment or a job in a school.

Civil service. My friend works four days a week, term-time only (and was employed on that basis). And she builds up flexi-time. And she gets an additional day off for the Queen's birthday...
On the downside, they are insisting on a set number of days in the office each week, rather than a more flexible hybrid option.

I’ve just run a civil service recruitment campaign for a handful of entry level roles that got well over 500 applications and while it’s really flexible, we wouldn’t have been able to offer TT only if anyone had asked for it and would have just moved onto the next candidate on the list. I would say self employment of some kind is by far the most realistic option for OP’s circumstances.

(Also, I always wonder if people realise that while the concepts of boundaries and so on are obviously important, the actual language of ‘my boundaries are clear’ etc mainly belongs to Internet forums and doesn’t generally translate well to real life, especially not something like job-hunting…)

No one is going to decide ad hoc whether you can be off over the holidays though.
You would negotiate a term time only contractprior to starting.
You seem very bogged down in fighting when the reality is that these things are requested, negotiated and either agreed or turned down depending on the needs of the service or business.
Why would you accept a job that refused or was wishy washy about a term time contract?
You wouldnt !
Its not a favour its a contract of employment.

You still havent mentioned what your skill set is or how long you have been out of the work place?
I dont think anyone is angry just a bit taken back that your approach is unprofessional.

“Demanding” is never appreciated.

A sensible discussion should be possible, though.

At the risk of armchair diagnosing you sound like you’re a bit ND yourself.

The obvious solution if you’re so insistent on a TT contract is to get one. Or temp jobs. As you don’t need the money.

Otherwise there’s no guarantee. There’s a good chance of it being viable if existing employees have such an arrangement. But even that could be for long-serving staff, the preserve of a specific line manager or only for those with v in-demand skills.

Good luck with that.

Sorry if already been suggested- but would you retrain to work in it? My dh is a developer and works from home permanently now. He can go in a day a week occasionally- but isn’t a problem if he doesn’t. Wfh with an 11 should be ok.

would you employ a school holidays nanny/aupair/babysitter?

Obviously it wouldn't be cheap, but it would give you a lot more scope of working.

There are people out there that do this type of thing and building a relationship with someone like this could mean you can call on them for sick days from school, after school etc

Heaven forbid the OP has the entitlement and audacity to insist upon only taking a job that can accommodate her individual childcare requirements!

The working world is still so hostile to women (as the usual primary carers). Some of these responses are indicative of what's holding us back! Sure, some jobs need bums on seats at specified times but the ones which can be flexible should be.

There's also a lot of tone policing going on here 🤔

OP - you're also absolutely right that you should be upfront about childcare needs. I just started a new job and have children with complex needs. I just assumed I would make it work and it's proving to be a complete headache 😖

NHS here, We employed clinical staff on zero contracts TTO, also one lady who lived in Hong Kong who wanted summer hours holidays only as her older teen kids were in boarding school in the UK.
You don't say what your skills are but have you considered working through an agency?
I don't think you sound entitled at all and think the folk who have said that are being very rude. You know what your needs are. I spent almost the whole of my working life working part time. The hours that I did were very flexible but there was a maximum that i could work each day because of my family circs. I ended up in senior management and leading on project work so it can work.

@Paperyfish this has already been suggested and is a bad idea.
Definitely not a term-time role. You can get temp jobs/contracts but these often overrun. Saying ‘bye I’m off It’s summer’ will only ruin your reputation.

OP wants to manage her child, not just be in the same house

Oh come on!
Op has been given good advice here.
Going back to employment, applying for jobs and going in demanding a term time contract in an unprofessional way wont help her at all.
Also given her last post she seems to view it as a favour when in fact it would be a contract she requests,negotiates and signs prior to commencing.
Hoping for or demanding holidays off is not how these things work so she appears naive in that respect.
As you say it hasnt worked for you so why not listen to the advice given here.

Temping

I think you need to adjust your attitude to job seeking a bit and think about what you are able to offer an employer in the time that you have available rather than talking about 'demanding super flexible working'.

Depending on your skills it sounds like a job in a school would be good because then you would have the same holidays.

However if your skills lie elsewhere you need to market yourself, get a job offer and then negotiate the flexible working that you need. You're likely to be more successful in this if you target organisations that advertise themselves as family friendly, open to flexible working etc etc. If you're happy to work full-time when schools are on but want term-time working then by all means go for full-time roles. If you want to be able to finish in time to do the school run then realistically you are looking for part-time or jobsharer roles. Personally I wouldn't request flexible working before you've had a job offer. I think it's better to convince an employer you are the right person for the job and then negotiate working arrangements that will work for both sides.

What was your last job?

Local authority may suit some offer term time working, ability to buy additional leave or mainly wfh.
I’ve gone from private firm to Public sector and it’s a different world.
Something like admin as a parish clerk is very few hours. Or exam invigilator at a school.
If you were part time with wfh then with an 11 year old you may well be able to carry on working in hols eg if she sleeps in or goes to a friends for a few hours.

As others have said, Civil service . It's sometimes called part year working rather than term time working. It's often more suited to casework roles rather than policy, but I do know people in policy roles who work this pattern.

@SomeCleverUsername @godmum56

Nobody has said that the OP can’t find a job that suits her.
Only that nothing’s guaranteed , unless written. No matter how hard she ‘asserts her boundaries’. The employer could give a verbal guarantee, but not honour it.

The OP itself is about tone. So people are merely answering the question asked. Employment is a market where you need to show what you can bring, and ask for what you want. ‘Heart and soul’ means nothing if there are many others equally capable with less fuss.

I work for a very flexible company, have a lot of experience in PT working, and coaching women to ask for more. Especially in my male dominated field. In fact I’m more inclined to hire women with caring responsibilities because they tend to be loyal, are great communicators and v productive. I’m not hiring them out of social responsibility. They genuinely bring benefits that make it worth it.

However term-time only would be impossible. Not because we’re being deliberately obstructive. But it takes weeks to onboard people. By the time we got a temp useful their contract would be over. We also have regulatory challenges and require certain security clearance.

After OP's second post, I am wondering....have you ever actually had a job?

It really depends what starting point you are coming from. Without knowing about your employment skills background it's hard to give any meaningful advice.
I think it's not about 'demanding' anything but saying this is my availability and finding solutions that work with that.

I'm disabled and DHs job is very inflexible for family life but I was lucky my profession offers the opportunity to be self employed and it's not an easy choice (I'd say it's harder than when I was director of a larger practice) but it does offer me flexibility as basically I set my hours. I have worked to build a good reputation and I had a lot of experience before the change and that allows me to be picky and only do jobs that work within my parameters. I also am in a comfortable enough position that if I have a shit month it doesn't cause me financial difficulties.

What you can demand of any employer depends purely on how much they want you, as oppose to all the other people who may also want the job. Unless you have a very high skill set, or bring something uniquely desirable to the table, or conversely are prepared to do the type of job that doesn't attract much interest (low pay, poor conditions) and so is extremely hard to recruit to, you don't get to dictate your terms and conditions. I think you will find it very difficult to find a role that meets your requirements, and any that do will be highly sought after.

You know everyone else here has other responsibilities too right? You’re speaking like you’re the first woman ever to try and build work / career around other caring responsibilities. It’s a very very common conundrum.

it might help us to help you if we know what your skills / qualifications are and what sort of work you’re looking for.