To not feel sorry for Amber Heard even in light of evidence

[Wheresmywoolyjumpers]

I always loved Johnny Depp. Was really wanting to take his side, but the evidence being presented is making that impossible for me. But as much as I want to support women, I cannot warm to Amber Heard. is it patriarchal brainwashing? Is it that they both seem spoiled and behaving badly? Or something else?

I rtft and one of the last comments was the truest lol

The two questions are … is it true that Depp domestically abused heard? And, is it true that heard made up the domestic/sexual abuse claims as part of a hoax or fraud?

It's also possible he was abusive and she is making things up.

I tend to think that's likely.

I think they're two people who should never have been in a relationship so mutually destructive. Depp's addictions were clearly so out of control that there was nothing vaguely attractive left in him. That level of lack of control is deeply dangerous. She seems pretty rotten too to be honest. But as more evidence is shown, it seems a foregone conclusion that he was abusive to her, regardless of whether she was too and it was mutually abusive. You can't be heard to say "I headbutted you, that doesn't break your nose" and say you are not physically abusive.

I've always admired his acting, but have never really understood the fascination with JD. He's weird and arrogant as fuck. Combined with multiple addictions I don't know why anyone would believe him to be a good choice of life partner.

Neither are coming across well. I have been of the mind that their relationship was mutually abusive and very toxic. This doesn’t mean she deserved to be abused, and neither did he. I really think he should have walked away from her and built a new life, rehashing this out in court is not helping him. I believe that he was abusive when intoxicated and I also believe she was abusive and also exaggerates. His defence are building up a picture of a mild mannered man who spent all his money on amber and her friends living rent free in his property, who struggled with addiction and was vulnerable to her abuse and her defence are building their defence that he was abusive when intoxicated and had a serious substance abuse problem.
I don’t think he will win.
I do feel uneasy with AH ‘evidence’ presented which doesn’t seem to tally with witnesses accounts (not JH) - not many people saw her with bruising when she said she had it.

Completely agree with all of this. Its very possible (and likely) they were BOTH abusive. I dont know why people are making this out to be: one is clearly the devil and the other is an innocent angel. They both sound toxic AF and the two of them together was the perfect storm for a horrifically damaging relationship. I also dont get the worship of JD- he's not attractive and comes across as thick as shit, only interested in drugs and highly misogynistic. She comes across as a lying toxic narcissist. They are both thoroughly unpleasant people from what Ive seen.

For clarity, Depp maintains that it was an accidental clash of heads, not a headbutt, and that he used the term "headbutt" in the recording simply because he was talking to Heard and that is how she characterised it, so saying it was an accidental clash of heads would have caused another argument. According to Depp, the alleged headbutt happened when Heard was physically attacking him, hitting and scratching, and he got her in a bearhug in an attempt to stop the attack. This was not entirely successful as she continued kicking him, then claimed that he had headbutted her and broken her nose.

I'm not defending him, just pointing out that his use of that sentence does not necessarily prove physical abuse.

I'm not defending him, just pointing out that his use of that sentence does not necessarily prove physical abuse

He lost his court case in the UK where the sun called him a "wife beater". Apparently, there was enough evidence to prove it wasnt slanderous and untrue. So it has already been proven in a court of law that he is guilty of some kind of violence towards her.

Thats not to say she wasnt violent aswell. But the court case was about HIM and he lost.

I hope they both disappear into insignificance with no acting career.
Toxic, entitled and spoilt - both of them.

She’s still getting work because she’s young and beautiful

I do feel uneasy with AH ‘evidence’ presented which doesn’t seem to tally with witnesses accounts (not JH)

Read the judgement from the U.K. case then. Something like 14 incidents were brought up as evidence and the judgement goes through them all j great detail.

Both obvious abusers imo. One being abusive doesn't negate the other doing the same.

It's been found that describing Depp as a wife beater is legally defensible. So, he's an abuser. He speaks about women disgustingly. I also always remember that female professer injured draged with her trousers down for blocking his view - that whole case displays an arrogant man who thinks people should do as he says or face concequences.

She shat in his bed, throws things, hit him, is emotionally abusive.

I dislike the seeming public view that now she's provably violent, she should be vilified and he exonerated. All they've proven is they're BOTH awful people.

I also dislike the view (on here too), that when you stop being scared of your abuser, you stop being a victim. I goaded a man with an axe to my neck to kill me because I was sick of his shit; I was still a victim despite not being scared. He raped me in a way that left physical damage; kicked me in the ribs when I did things he didn't like; was so tormenting I was hallucinating through stress. Because he was an alcoholic, I ended up with police checking on me potentially emotionally abusing a 'vulnerable person': by crying and showing him the self harm his abuse led to. I know lots of people don't see me as a victim because I stopped being scared of his abuse. Lack of fear doesn't equal no abuse.

The make up artist on James Cordon already testified she didn’t see any bruises the next day and she was the closest person to AH face? The police also didn’t see any? Didn’t AH lawyers delay handing over the meta data from the photos too?

I'm so sorry you went through that and I agree.

Its ridiculous people in this thread saying "oh she cant have been a victim because she was recording him! you dont do that calmly if you're scared!"

Bollocks. We all know the police or anyone wont do jack shit without proof and the easiest way of getting proof is to record it. I have recorded ex partners in a drunken rage before because I was terrified at what they'd do and they would always deny doing it the next day when they'd sobered up. It DOES NOT mean I wasnt scared inside but outwardly calm when it was happening. I think she was abusive too but in this scenario it seems women cant win- if they dont record it, they are gleefully told "THERES NO PROOF!!", if they record it they are gleefully told "YOU MUST HAVE GOADED HIM BECAUSE IF YOU WERE TRULY SCARED YOU WOULDNT BE ABLE TO RECORD!".

So, how the fck are they supposed to get "proof" then?

The make up artist on James Cordon already testified she didn’t see any bruises the next day and she was the closest person to AH face? The police also didn’t see any? Didn’t AH lawyers delay handing over the meta data from the photos too?

honestly, read the judgement. The judge goes into great detail as to her reasons for believing Amber's version of events to be largely true .

plus the other 13 incidents that are taken into consideration in upholding 'wife bearer' as a legitimate descriptor of Johnny Depp.

Then there must have been lots more evidence backing it up. Otherwise, he wouldnt have lost his case in the high court would he? The term "wife beater" isnt an ambiguous term- its crystal clear what that means and its a very stigmatising way to describe a person so if there was no evidence for it, he would have won his case, not lost.

I have read it and really the only witnesses to her injuries were… her friends. She did see the marriage counsellor but she isn’t a medic and wasn’t able to verify if they were real injuries or make up

It's not just one incident she's relying on here. There is a LOT of material for any court case to cover. It's all there in the judgement.

No it is not me saying it’s not true if no evidence but from day 1, there has been something off with the case in the public eye (which is why so many people feed into the belief that JD didn’t do it) and the lack of clarity around the injuries. I myself think he did throw things at her. I also do think she embellished some of the details

I think I was getting too caught up in thinking there must be an abuser and a victim or whatever, when actually they are both moving constantly between those roles. They are both abusers, they are both victims. Everyone smells of shit here

I have read it and really the only witnesses to her injuries were… her friends. She did see the marriage counsellor but she isn’t a medic and wasn’t able to verify if they were real injuries or make up

so can you take us through your contrasting conclusions to the judges detailed analysis of this incident then? Point by point. I'd be very interested.

And what about the other 13 incidents?

I read the entire judgment from The Sun case and basically the judge just believes everything Amber said or texted and dismissed anything Johnny said or texted. That case was really about defamation in press and that was the judges focus. There are actually inaccuracies and dishonest aspects to it (i.e. the door Amber submitted as evidence that Johnny smashed while in the Bahamas to support the Bahamas assault story was actually a door from one of his LA houses or the fact that Amber changed dates a few times when evidence was brought forward showing that the initial dates she gave were impossible). The judge didn't care about any of these details. She also dismissed Johnny's texts where he told others of Amber assaulting him saying they are just texts but the judge then accepted Amber's texts saying he assualted her.

For the record I think they are both toxic and abusive and damaged but I don't for a second think either was the good guy in this relationship. Amber's parents were both alcoholics and her father beat her mother and I think some of her descriptions of Johnny's assaults are likely those she witnessed in childhood.

@Herja - congratulations on your courage & survival. I agree - there comes a point when the long-term fear is unsustainable, & anger takes over.

ime, that anger was a cold, internal burning that didn't stop me from keeping my head down when shit got real. The response you had, though, was reacting to a man directly threatening you in an absolutely terrifying way. A calculated risk taken in the moment, with your life in real & imminent danger.
Totally unlike coolly deciding upfront to try & catch out a drunk/high/having an episode partner who is totally ignoring you as he slams his way round the kitchen, by goading him about his breakfast drinking. Why would you do that, while his anger is 'safely' (I know - it's still violence & still a threat!) directed at the kitchen cupboards rather than your body? Because you thrive on drama? Because you are looking to build a 'case?' Because you are so obsessed with your own narrative that, rather than quietly remove yourself from the room/house, you simply have to stay & record the unpleasantness?

Again - before the PP who want to brand this as victim-blaming jump in - of course Heard is a victim. She's also a perpetrator.

Herja, I am so glad you escaped your abuser, & hope the toxic after-effects, including the wretched trauma of being disbelieved, are faded now, or at least mostly manageable. [flowers

basically the judge just believes everything Amber said or texted and dismissed anything Johnny said or texted.

They're a legal professional. That's not to say they can't get anything wrong, but you sound like a seven year old coming out with stuff like this. They have years of training, experience behind them and s reputation to lose.

Spot on! and I think this is what is de-railing a lot of the opinions in general. We have been brought up to believe that there is usually good vs bad. Hero vs villain. We like contrasts like this because it makes it easy for us to identify the "good one" and the "bad one" but life isnt like this.

In this particular case, I think its very obvious its villian vs villian. Did he abuse her?- yes. Did she abuse him? yes. They both have enormous, arrogant egos (not uncommon in the acting world) which cannot stand to take any responsibility for their actions- this really was a match made in hell and they have brought out the absolute worst in each other- add to that active drug and alcohol addictions, personality disorders, the money to enable their destructive behaviour, being surrounded by "yes" people and abusive upbringings and its no wonder it lit up like a match tossed into a petrol can.

They are both horrible, horrible people in my opinion.

We have been brought up to believe that there is usually good vs bad. Hero vs villain. We like contrasts like this because it makes it easy for us to identify the "good one" and the "bad one" but life isnt like this.

Exactly. Also people don't seem to be able to get their heads around the legal cases. They're about specific issues, rather than 'Johnny versus Amber'