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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To not feel sorry for Amber Heard even in light of evidence

331 replies

Wheresmywoolyjumpers · 22/04/2022 13:55

I always loved Johnny Depp. Was really wanting to take his side, but the evidence being presented is making that impossible for me. But as much as I want to support women, I cannot warm to Amber Heard. is it patriarchal brainwashing? Is it that they both seem spoiled and behaving badly? Or something else?

OP posts:
prh47bridge · 23/04/2022 11:42

ParisNoir · 23/04/2022 08:21

I'm not defending him, just pointing out that his use of that sentence does not necessarily prove physical abuse

He lost his court case in the UK where the sun called him a "wife beater". Apparently, there was enough evidence to prove it wasnt slanderous and untrue. So it has already been proven in a court of law that he is guilty of some kind of violence towards her.

Thats not to say she wasnt violent aswell. But the court case was about HIM and he lost.

He did, but remember that it was only to the civil standard, not beyond reasonable doubt. Also, one of the reasons the judge in the UK believed Heard was her statement under oath that she had donated the entire divorce settlement to charity. It appears this was a lie. That doesn't necessarily mean the judge was wrong, but I wouldn't regard it as proving beyond doubt that Depp is a wife beater.

Jinglebin1 · 23/04/2022 11:47

Havent RTFT but the judge deemed 12/14 of Amber's claims credible enough for The Sun to have called him a wife beater. Credibility is based on the judge's perception and is not fact. It didn't find him guilty of them, or he would have been charged.

I personally don't believe he has hit her, but that he used to smash things up around her. He's admitted this and he's also been seen to do it on camera. Though she sets a camera up and laughs at his anger when he spots it in one incident. However, smashing stuff up/hitting things around someone not OK as it is frightening in itself. His substance use won't help anything either. I don't think he's innocent, but I think she is the real aggressor and a downright psychopath. She knows how to push his buttons.
The non-verbal communication in the court is very interesting. She doesn't act like someone who is scared of him. Which she should be, if what she claims is true. She's also been doing very odd things, like wearing a bumblebee tie the day after he wore one. My best friend is a victim of DA and she can't bear anything at all that is associated with him, even down to silly things like Funko Pops, so I just find that really strange.

PaperTyger · 23/04/2022 11:53

I think this current court case Seems more "rounded" them rhe other and proper medical evidence will help.
Like with this mysterious finger.

TheKeatingFive · 23/04/2022 11:59

It didn't find him guilty of them, or he would have been charged.

it was nothing to do with that, it was a libel case he'd take against the Mail. Which he lost.

ParisNoir · 23/04/2022 12:30

prh47bridge · 23/04/2022 11:42

He did, but remember that it was only to the civil standard, not beyond reasonable doubt. Also, one of the reasons the judge in the UK believed Heard was her statement under oath that she had donated the entire divorce settlement to charity. It appears this was a lie. That doesn't necessarily mean the judge was wrong, but I wouldn't regard it as proving beyond doubt that Depp is a wife beater.

So, it doesnt matter how many court cases he loses- he's still innocent right? It was a civil case so of course its going to be a judgment based on that.

Ok- its very clear that some people will perform all kinds of mental gymnastics to make him out to be wholly innocent in this scenario. Thats fine- you can think what you want, but at least own up to the cognitive dissonance very obviously happening here.

ParisNoir · 23/04/2022 12:32

The non-verbal communication in the court is very interesting. She doesn't act like someone who is scared of him. Which she should be, if what she claims is true. She's also been doing very odd things, like wearing a bumblebee tie the day after he wore one

You wont take a high court's decision but her wearing a tie convinces you?

I have no words....

KTheGrey · 23/04/2022 14:28

@BridgesofMadisonfan I also think that trial was a farcical miscarriage of justice. Follow the evidence. He has witnesses, tapes of verbal abuse, a cut off finger and photos of his face beaten up. She has photos with messed up metadata and friends trying to interfere with the administration of justice.

StormzyinaTCup · 23/04/2022 14:30

He does have a substance and alcohol problem and that is pretty clear, however, they have not (yet) provided any proof that he was violently abusive towards her. At the moment it's looking like her legal team are expecting people to make a connection without proof ie, alcohol and substance abuse = 'wife beater'.

There may well be more to come from her legal team of course but at the moment nothing has been shown as proof that he was violently abusive towards her.

I believe (but happy to be corrected) that unlike the U.K. trial she will have to provide full disclosure in this US trial.

There is also some questioning as to whether the photographs that were used in the U.K. trial had been manipulated. The Virginia judge ruled in Nov 21 that the metadata that wasn't originally given to Depp's team in the UK trial, be handed over so that it can be forensically examined for any signs of manipulation. There may be something in this or there may not.

ApertureGLaDOS · 23/04/2022 16:43

KTheGrey · 23/04/2022 14:28

@BridgesofMadisonfan I also think that trial was a farcical miscarriage of justice. Follow the evidence. He has witnesses, tapes of verbal abuse, a cut off finger and photos of his face beaten up. She has photos with messed up metadata and friends trying to interfere with the administration of justice.

Hang on - didn’t he admit to cutting his own finger off? I am so confused with all of this.

Maddiemademe · 23/04/2022 16:44

He admitted he head butted her. Sorry am I missing here that physically head butting someone isn’t an assault? I don’t like either of them but fan girl crap for him is something else!

NippyWoowoo · 23/04/2022 16:48

Maddiemademe · 23/04/2022 16:44

He admitted he head butted her. Sorry am I missing here that physically head butting someone isn’t an assault? I don’t like either of them but fan girl crap for him is something else!

Shocking. Multiple people on this thread have talked about the fact that he admits several times to cutting off his own finger, yet still people are saying she did it.

Oh and the ruling by the Judge regarding The Sun? Yeah he just didn't know what he was doing 🙄

TheKeatingFive · 23/04/2022 16:59

Oh and the ruling by the Judge regarding The Sun? Yeah he just didn't know what he was doing

I know right, crazy. I've just seen that he was refused permission to appeal because there was 'no real prospect of success' so presumably the fan girls think the entire U.K. judiciary is against him.

prh47bridge · 23/04/2022 17:30

TheKeatingFive · 23/04/2022 16:59

Oh and the ruling by the Judge regarding The Sun? Yeah he just didn't know what he was doing

I know right, crazy. I've just seen that he was refused permission to appeal because there was 'no real prospect of success' so presumably the fan girls think the entire U.K. judiciary is against him.

I am certainly not saying that the judge did not know what he was doing. That does not mean he was right in deciding that Depp was a wife beater.

Libel verdicts are almost impossible to appeal unless the judge has made an error in law. The judge did not make any such error. Depp's lawyers tried to argue that the judgement was perverse, but the bar to make such an argument is very high. They had to show that no-one could possibly have arrived at that judgement based on the evidence. Even if they could show that every other judge would have come up with a different verdict, that would not have been enough. It was clearly open to the judge to come to the conclusions he did based on the evidence presented, so the attempt to appeal was rejected. That does not necessarily mean the original verdict was correct, nor does it mean that the judges in the Court of Appeal would have arrived at the same verdict if they had heard the case.

The judge largely accepted Heard's evidence, rejecting evidence from police officers, medical practitioners, one of her friends and others that disagreed with her version of events, and rejecting contemporaneous documentary evidence that disagreed with her. He found her a credible witness. However, we know that part of the reason he accepted her version of events was her statement, made under oath, that she had given the $7M divorce settlement to charity. It appears that statement was a lie. Would the judge still have accepted her evidence if he had known that? We don't know.

The other point I would make is that the judge decided the case on the balance of probabilities, the standard used in the UK for civil cases. Some people seem to want to take this judgement as proving Depp was a wife beater beyond reasonable doubt. That is not the case.

The judge in the UK case refused to make a third party disclosure order against Heard. Whilst that decision was correct, it meant she was able to limit her disclosure to evidence that favoured her. She did not have to disclose any evidence that undermined her version of events. In the US case, she will have been forced to disclose everything requested by Depp's legal team, regardless of whether it helps or hinders her case. This case may therefore include significant evidence that was not included in the UK case.

The judge in the UK case knew what he was doing. He is a very good judge - one of the best. But he is not infallible. He may have been mistaken. Juries and magistrates get it wrong in criminal cases, where the prosecution has to prove its case beyond reasonable doubt. Judges will, therefore, get it wrong in civil cases where the standard of proof required is much lower.

prh47bridge · 23/04/2022 17:32

Maddiemademe · 23/04/2022 16:44

He admitted he head butted her. Sorry am I missing here that physically head butting someone isn’t an assault? I don’t like either of them but fan girl crap for him is something else!

No, he did not. He admitted an accidental clash of heads. His version of events is that she was hitting and scratching him. He tried to stop her by getting her into a bearhug. This was only partly successful as she continued kicking him, then claimed he had headbutted her. He is adamant that he did not, but accepts there was probably an accidental clash of heads.

TheKeatingFive · 23/04/2022 17:43

The other point I would make is that the judge decided the case on the balance of probabilities, the standard used in the UK for civil cases. Some people seem to want to take this judgement as proving Depp was a wife beater beyond reasonable doubt. That is not the case.

The judgement references 12 incidents where he believed Amber had been assaulted, 3 of which he judged she was reasonably in fear of her life.

If you don't think that's pretty damning, that's up to you, but it does make me question why the actual fuck you'd be defending this wifebeater (I can legally call him that).

then there's also the video evidence of violent meltdowns, the depraved texts about what he'd do to her burnt out corpse. Plus the other disgusting language used about his ex partner.

it paints a picture, y'know.

anyway, it doesn't really matter in that he's totally finished now. The court cases have done him no good at all.

Echobelly · 23/04/2022 17:45

TBH, it sounds like both of them have been awful, but I note that the dominant narrative on social media is in support of Depp - good old misogyny!

LetitiaLeghorn · 23/04/2022 18:24

I didn't hear the evidence in the Depp-Heard trial in the UK and the judge did, so I would suppose his judgement is more likely to be accurate over mine.
But judges are not always right and can be easily influenced. How about...
“Remember Mrs Archer in the witness box. Your vision of her probably will never disappear. Has she elegance? Has she fragrance?" Living with her, how could Archer ever be “in need of cold, unloving, rubber-insulated sex in a seedy hotel.”

ancientgran · 23/04/2022 18:35

prh47bridge · 23/04/2022 11:42

He did, but remember that it was only to the civil standard, not beyond reasonable doubt. Also, one of the reasons the judge in the UK believed Heard was her statement under oath that she had donated the entire divorce settlement to charity. It appears this was a lie. That doesn't necessarily mean the judge was wrong, but I wouldn't regard it as proving beyond doubt that Depp is a wife beater.

If she said that under oath and it wasn't true isn't that perjury? Should she face consequences for that?

prh47bridge · 23/04/2022 18:59

ancientgran · 23/04/2022 18:35

If she said that under oath and it wasn't true isn't that perjury? Should she face consequences for that?

Perjury prosecutions for evidence given in civil cases are rare. To get a conviction, it would be necessary to show to the criminal standard (i.e. beyond reasonable doubt) that she knew the evidence she gave was untrue and that the evidence was material to the case. It would probably fail on the basis that, whilst it may have been a significant factor in persuading the judge to believe her, whether she made this donation was not an issue in the case.

ancientgran · 23/04/2022 19:12

I think you'd know if you'd given 7 million dollars away and it would be easy to demonstrate so I don't think proving it beyond reasonable doubt would be difficult.

I think it is awful for someone to come from a foreign country and lie in court under oath, well it is awful for anyone to do it and if it didn't give some sort of advantage why do it? It is very disrespectful to the UK legal system. I really don't think that should go unpunished.

I'm maybe starting to understand why people dislike her.

Murdoch1949 · 23/04/2022 19:13

Heard is a vile, bullying ex wife, jealous of Depp's fame. He is a damaged man, through mother's abuse, and his own addictions. I don't think he had been physically abusive to her but she has to him. I also think that she has faked injuries, as make up artist said, and she lied about applying make up to hide bruises (manufacturer testified that the make up was not marketed until years after the alleged assaults). Team Depp, if you hadn't guessed.

Kanaloa · 23/04/2022 22:48

Murdoch1949 · 23/04/2022 19:13

Heard is a vile, bullying ex wife, jealous of Depp's fame. He is a damaged man, through mother's abuse, and his own addictions. I don't think he had been physically abusive to her but she has to him. I also think that she has faked injuries, as make up artist said, and she lied about applying make up to hide bruises (manufacturer testified that the make up was not marketed until years after the alleged assaults). Team Depp, if you hadn't guessed.

Team ‘can’t wait to rape the burned corpse of my wife’ 😂

Why are you team anyone? They’re two extremely damaged and damaging individuals who (regardless of what they’ve been through) sound like thoroughly unpleasant people.

But I guess he was cute in the 90s so that’s the important thing. Maybe if you’re really lucky and very young and pretty he’ll fantasise about murdering and raping you to his equally creepy pals.

KettrickenSmiled · 23/04/2022 23:51

FFS @Kanaloa - gobsmacked by your post.

In a good way Wine

Kanaloa · 23/04/2022 23:54

Sorry it might have been a bit much 😂 just can’t imagine looking at a case like this and thinking ‘hmm what team am I?’ And then choosing a violent misogynist because you fancy him.

And that’s why it is, isn’t it? He was cute in the 90s (and to be honest after then too) he used to do this fantastic soft-boy type of thing. But I mean just get yourself into Matt Damon instead and stop choosing a team in a domestic violence court case like it’s a Twilight movie.

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