Brother’s GF can’t stop lying

[Flymetothezoom]

I have recently moved nearer to my family after being away for 20 years. I am getting to know my brothers GF of 6 years. She never stops lying. Examples:

1. She is Catholic/Roma/Jewish/Protestant depending on the topic of conversation.

1. She earns £10k a month, even though she gets housing support and constantly borrows money

1. She was a top DJ/lawyer/chef -she actually worked in a call centre.

1. She runs two employment unions, works 20 hours a day on her business and has a day job.

I don’t care so much about these inconsequential lies, although they stop the flow of conversation because no matter the topic she is an expert and has done everything. These lies don’t really impact me but her nonsensical promises stop any of us in the family having a conversation.

For example:

1. We are having a Christening and were discussing cakes and she stops the conversation by saying that she was a professional baker and the cake will be a gift to us. She wasn’t, she didn’t. Luckily I suspected she wouldn’t so I got a back up cake.

1. We needed a builder, she stops the conversation by saying that she runs the office for a team of builders and they will come to see me the next day, never happens.

1. We are having a party, I discuss catering with my parents, she interrupts that she was a professional caterer and will do all the catering as a present to me.

1. She has volunteered to paint our house, redo our decking, relay the patio, buy me a designer bag, give legal advice, cut hair.. the list is endless and it is all nonsense. I don’t want or need her to do anything for me but I literally cannot have a conversation with my family because of her, she is always around them.

I have discussed it with my brother and he said that she believes what she says when she says it. What can I do?

I have no qualifications but that sounds to me like grandiosity or confabulation, both recognised symptoms of certain mental disorders .

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5819598/_

www.verywellmind.com/confabulation-definition-examples-and-treatments-4177450

It could be typical in NPD (Narcissistic Personality Disorder).

     Some people with a severe MH diagnosis, are well aware of their illness and  its behaviours and  even welcome an open discussion to help mitigate  the real-life consequences (for themselves and others).

    Others have absolutely no awareness of any mental disorder and totally believe the  fantasies their brain produces. 

    The important thing to remember is that people with a severe mental disorder can't help it, can't stop  their delusions, and are not consciously lying.

     In your situation,  I would ask your brother  upfront , in a sympathetic non judgemental way  " some of the things Mary  says don't make sense. Has she  ever  been diagnosed or treated for a mental disorder?".  If he doesn't know, I'd put the same question to her

     <strong>Sometimes</strong>, in my experience,  people with awareness of their disorder  will unbutton  (with relief) which can offer a way forward . From long experience,  they have developed  coping mechanisms and are only too glad to be open about it.  " If I do ABC,  please would you do XYZ. ".  " These are  triggers that sometimes set me off , best avoid them".

A person with no awareness of their disorder is far harder to reach. But you can still front-up to a delusion and say " No. Sorry, I won't go along with that. I'm going home. We'll talk some other time".

Your brother has a hard furrow to plough with a person like that. He may be doing it for love and compassion; bear that in mind in how you treat him.

Advice for dealing with pathological liar seems to be limit contact with them and if you do see them don’t give them information they can use. So in your examples if party planning or garden makeover comes up say oh I’ll ring you later mil about it or brush off and say it’s all sorted. It’s a shame as you can’t discuss things when she is there. Maybe speak to Parents in law and explain you don’t want your business discussing as you don’t want gf getting involved. They must be worried about BIL.

I agree with others that she actually does have a fair few of the disorders she's claimed. Did she 'lose custody' of her children or did they choose to live with their father? Who knows. I wouldn't ridicule her but I wouldn't let her dominate the conversation with nonsense. She's seriously unwell.

@Thehop

Oh god this would drive me mad.

“Let’s not pretend that will happen, Jane, it’ll be just like the cake/builders/haircuts. Haha. Now then where were we?”

This.

I'm astounded you haven't called her out on her fantasy lies.

I met a girl at a Festival once who had a desperately young puppy with her, far too young to be out and about.

She said when I questioned her about it, that she was a Vet.

I asked her which Vet school she'd been to, and she couldn't answer.
Nor did she know about the dangers of bringing a pup who was about 5 weeks old to a festival where there were many adult dogs, and Parvo was about back then.

What would happen if when she says she's Buddhist/a cake decorators/hairdresser you said "But you're not, are you." ? You

I think you should let your brother know how you feel about it. Probably given six years of a relationship, too late perhaps to encourage he has self-respect and becomes single again though.

Don't try and catch her out she's clearly seriously unwell she needs professional help and your brother needs to be helping her get that and if she's refusing then he needs to leave her because that's not a relationship

6 years and yet you make no comment about the actual relationship between your brother and his girlfriend

I’m guessing you and your brother aren’t close?

It sounds like she has narcissistic personality disorder. I had the misfortune to be in a relationship with someone like this once in my 20s. They can be very charming and attentive in the beginning. Love-bombing. Wow, you have never met someone so interesting and they are really keen you! They tend to enter into relationships with people from outside their circle of friends as they know you can't triangulate the facts so easily. Once you get sucked in you find it hard to give up this relationship even though you are starting to suspect some (all) of the lies aren't true. Everyone exaggerates or mis-remembers from time to time, surely?
You can't help her, she's toxic and best avoided. I would point out to your brother that she is lying and everyone knows it and tell him you will be there for him, because break ups with people like this can be really high conflict.

I have sometimes wondered what happened to my ex in the intervening 20 years. There's no trace of him on the internet, but his family are there on Facebook, popping up on websites all as normal. I am sure he is dead/in prison/changed his name by deed poll.

OP, I am a very non confrontational, but even I would have said something blunt to her by now! Either start calling her out on her BS every time she does it. Or tell your brother she is no longer welcome to family visits/gatherings due to her constant lies. Disengage completely, you really don't have to tolerate her at all. Why on Earth is he even with her?

[quote Flymetothezoom]@Seraphinesupport she has 3 teenagers but lost custody of two of them a few years ago. The one that still lives with her is trans and autistic and a pyromaniac according to her but there is no evidence that any of that is true.[/quote]
This hit me
How can your brother have a relationship with someone who was so utterly inept at parenting that they lost full care of two of their children. SS permanently remove children only in the most SERIOUS of circumstances

And yet your concern is about her lying???

There's embellishing your cv and then there's this. Is she delusional, insecure or just constantly trying to impress others. If she truly believes all this stuff as she says it is she safe to be let out on her own ? She doesn't sound competent to run her own life and certainly not to give informed consent for anything important (getting married or signing any form of contract)

For her to have lost custody of her children
The father just have had some very compelling proof of neglect
And yet your brother is happy with his young teens being around her (and presumably they were very young when they got together 6 years ago)

What does the brother get out of this relationship? She sounds really vulnerable and hard work, does she make him happy or is she a project to him?

@Whenyougonnalearn

For her to have lost custody of her children The father just have had some very compelling proof of neglect And yet your brother is happy with his young teens being around her (and presumably they were very young when they got together 6 years ago)

She's said that the children chose to live with their dad. Past a certain age the judge can't force them not to so There doesn't have to have been neglect.

Op said he “got residency”

Indicates court involvement

I would worry what other lies she could come out with to someone who actually believes her,

You really don’t know where you are with a liar.

This sounds quite disturbing, I would definitely encourage DB to finish things or he will find himself on the end of the lies.

Next time in conversation, if she comes out with similar you could say ‘oh haha I can never tell when you are being serious or on the wind up, like when you told us you were an expert X, I believed you hahaha I’m so gullible!‘ (tinkly laugh)

Trouble is with people like this when /if you challenge/disagree with them they will endlessly argue that black's white and get very upset with you that you are challenging them or disbelieving them.
It really is a disorder, I've known two like this, one married a friend of mine, and it took her some years before she realised that all his "stories" were in fact pure fantasy.
The Op's brother will eventually get fed up with it, both partners of the two people I knew who were like it left eventually, one after 10 years the other 15!
I think the only way to deal withit is to visibly eye roll when she gets going, this will make her partner feel uncomfortable, he will eventually get rid because, unfortunately, she will never change!

I know someone like this. Has a degree in child psychology (no), has a motorbike licence and rides huge 1000cc bikes (no), has worked as a backing singer for famous musicians (no), was a model in her younger days (no) has been to practically every gig of every band anyone ever mentions (no), can speak multiple foreign languages (no). The list goes on. Her current partner has no idea who she actually is. She moved away to live with him, and cut off everyone from her past as gradually her lies were unravelling, and he would have discovered the real person. So she went NC with all her family.

She’s been like that forever. She will stare you in the face and tell you black is blue…no one has ever called her out on it, it’s weird. It’s also very sad as it’s pretty evident her fantasy world is based upon feeling on inferiority and possible childhood trauma. There’s an awful lot there to unpack.

I worked with someone like that. She also involved her children in the lies (taking them to A&E saying they’d had a fit etc.) quite a lot of people believed her, at least to start with, thinking she wouldn’t make up such serious things. It all came to a head when she told us that one of the bosses (married) was having an affair with her and showed us gifts he had given her as “proof”. Another boss spoke to the accused about it and inconsistencies in the story proved it to be untrue. I believe she’s now doing it elsewhere.

I would call her out on it. We should have done.

The two children chose to live with their father and the court agreed. The youngest has a different dad who is not around. So she says.

As for why my brother is dating her. I am not sure. He is very shy and has only had one relationship before where he was treated terribly, she left when his children were very small. He does not speak much and would never talk to me about his feelings.

There are two problems here, the first that she lies constantly and the second is that the lying derails conversations and planning so that it's harder for you to organise things. It seems to me that, while the lying is obviously annoying, you are prepared to ignore it if it doesn't impact on you. So perhaps, every time she offers to do something for you, you can come back with "Thanks for that, that'll be option A, but I'll also finish planning this with my parents so that we also have an option B in place in case we need it." Then continue the conversation.

I have a family member who does this but on a far lesser scale which makes it hard to tell what’s true and what’s not. It can’t be helped and they do acknowledge that they do this and also can’t keep up with the lord they tell. There are multiple MH issues within the family.

I suspect this has crept up since the beginning of the relationship and now your brother doesn’t even see it as others do. Most people wouldn’t find this behaviour at the start of a relationship normal so the fact it’s long term makes me think it’s slowly escalated. I’d speak to him separately and ask how you can support. I think you’ll find he’s aware and it may be something ongoing. Good luck OP.