This government and their direction of travel, frightens me.

[Kendodd]

Teressa May (last government, but same party) with her 'go home immigrants' vans and hostle environment.
Immigration and Borders act.
Transportation to Rwanda.
Bringing laws in trying to limit our right to protest.
Lying to the queen to prorogue parliament.
Lying in the house of commons.
Trying to change the law to get one of your MPs off.
Pretty much ripping up the ministerial code.
Windrush.
Admitting that they're just going to break international law.

I bet they will come after the human rights act and try to get us out of ECHR.

Worse, I think a great many of the public love the fact they've done all the above and would cheer loudly at the ripping up of the human rights act and ECHR membership (wtaf?)

How did we get to this?

" want this government to put this country and its core voters first and stop being such a soft touch."

Could you explain what's a "core voter"? Are some voters superior to other types of voters?

@Justanotherlurker

I can show another poll that contradicts that

I think you trying to counter an actual poll to a paid to participate poll is not the win you think it is.

What are your actual rebuttals of the situation?

It's funny how You Gov is used when it supports Government policy.

My rebuttal of the situation is a lack of awareness of the refugee situation worldwide.

It's not covered much in the media. We see just a glimpse of it in the boats.

I think people would be shocked to know the true extent of the refugee situation worldwide.

I am learning more and more about it

We really are sheltered here - in a relatively well off country, a democracy, food on the shelves, not much corruption, no major conflicts, a good health system and education system. It could be far better - but we do ok.

A lot of countries in the world and people in the world have it far worse.

And as an island nation, we can 'draw up the drawbridge' and isolate ourselves. Away from the world's problems,

I get people putting the UK first.

But there are 85 million refugees in the world. We can put up the barriers and say 'we're full'. Turn away and look the other way.

Who should look after those refugees?

If you want to fo down the hyperbolic headlines then we should address why 3 million a day is spent on just housing illegal immigrants, and then bring into the discussion the cost of living increase and somehow show what situation will be better when some people are stuggling to even pay for essential services

You keep saying 'illegal immigrants'

Are people in refugee camps in Ethiopia illegal immigrants too?

If not, why not?

@cakeorwine

If you want to fo down the hyperbolic headlines then we should address why 3 million a day is spent on just housing illegal immigrants, and then bring into the discussion the cost of living increase and somehow show what situation will be better when some people are stuggling to even pay for essential services

You keep saying 'illegal immigrants'

Are people in refugee camps in Ethiopia illegal immigrants too?

If not, why not?

They are not, because they did not cross the channel in a small boat.

Must be a bit boring over on the Brexit board tonight!

The poster doesn't have to leave. I didn't tell them to (unlike someone who told me to fuck off to North Korea earlier int he thread) I just said if their perception of this lovely country is as they described then they know where the door is. They can choose to live in all those wonderful countries that are so much better, with such nice people if we disgust her so much.

Orrrrrr....... deep breath we could vote in a party that actually gives a shit about people. This country is fucked, but hey, food banks so yay!!

You need to be earning well over £40k to be a net contributer to the tax system. Let's not kid ourselves that these low paid immigrants are the lifeblood of the economy helping to fund our public services.

@Fishwishy - So those of us who have been earning well over 40K, by choice in the UK, for the last decade. We don't count. You're right. I'd rather be kidding myself in the Caribbean. Good luck to you.

@Fishwishy

You need to be earning well over £40k to be a net contributer to the tax system. Let's not kid ourselves that these low paid immigrants are the lifeblood of the economy helping to fund our public services.

Some of them are now going to get themselves flown to Rwanda at our expense, costing us £30,000 or more each. What have they done to deserve this largesse?

@Fishwishy

You need to be earning well over £40k to be a net contributer to the tax system. Let's not kid ourselves that these low paid immigrants are the lifeblood of the economy helping to fund our public services.

Surely that depends on all sorts of factors. I very much doubt that a family with a couple of kids in school are anything close to being net contributors. HMRC figures indicate that we benefit financially from immigration.

In the past few years, the government has published data derived from Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs (HMRC, the government body responsible for collecting taxes and paying certain benefits) and the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) of amounts paid and received by foreign nationals. For example, HMRC data show that in FY2018/19 (the most recent year for which there are data), EEA and Swiss citizens paid £22.4bn more in income tax and National Insurance contributions than they took out in tax credits and child benefit (HMRC, 2022). Non-EEA (and non-Swiss) citizens paid £20bn more in income tax and National Insurance than they received in tax credits and child benefit.

migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/the-fiscal-impact-of-immigration-in-the-uk/

I dunno @jgw1. President Kagame has been all over the region this week, on a charm offensive. He's having a much better time than Will + Kate.

Both my husband and I fit the ‘over 40k’ immigrants label. As do many friends. There’s a fair number of us.

@Fishwishy

You need to be earning well over £40k to be a net contributer to the tax system. Let's not kid ourselves that these low paid immigrants are the lifeblood of the economy helping to fund our public services.

We need people to work in industries and in public services

All people working in an economy help the economy to grow, help industries to expand, provide jobs and those industries pay taxes.

High paid workers can't do their jobs or get by in society without the rest of society working as well.

And what did modern-day Britain do to deserve the largesse that our depleted and colonised people and land gave? Nothing. Deal with your history.

Haven’t read the whole thread but the normal people who can’t wait to get rid of ‘human rights’ laws clearly forget they’re human. The words ‘useful idiots’ spring to mind. We are living on a knife edge in this country.

It's funny how You Gov is used when it supports Government policy.

I agree, it is funny watching the pro corbyn croud suddenly agreeing with it when it confirms their bias. It still doesnty negate the paid to particpate arghument against a genuine poll though.

As for the rest of your counter point it's nothing more than 'feel goud' points, and offers nothing to counter the global situation, the emotive languange needs something to back it up, you have shown you can''t actially back it up witjh a serious counter point other than some nebulas feel good factor.

The calling anyone else racists is a lost narrative, it;s time to accept the situation and offer a counter point that is based in reality, it's not uniquly a UK situation as it's happening across the EU and counter tge push back and apparently be left leaning when it is the right wing who want to import chrap labour.

The ugly conversations now are open, it is for a lot on the left to try and justify of it

I have said for the last four years that the Tory party will eventually ride to victory, yet again, with reintroducing the death penalty to the U.K.

Yes, I think the death penalty would be very popular. I know Priti Patel has wanted to bring it back, as has the Tory press.

As for the rest of your counter point it's nothing more than 'feel goud' points, and offers nothing to counter the global situation, the emotive languange needs something to back it up, you have shown you can''t actially back it up witjh a serious counter point other than some nebulas feel good factor

A 'nebulous feel good factor'?

Maybe - doing the right thing is important.

Are we an isolationist nation or are we part of the world community stepping up where it counts?

I think we should step up - some people don't think we should step up and are isolationist in their view.

@Neverendingdust

We’re a small shitty island governed by those with delusions of grandeur, voted for by an easily manipulated, averagely educated electorate. What else did you expect? Utopia?

We overindulged on our misconception of being world leaders with magnificent ideologies that we were a Great Britain. But now he charade is up, the ruse is over, our run has ran and now laid bare for all to see is the reality, Little Britain.

Shit in shit out, it’s the rule of the cosmos. We think we’re better than this and yet we continually prove time and time again, we are simply not.

Exactly this. Nothing Great about Britain, just a mess clinging to notions of grandeur.

I have had an idea.

These migrants might have useful skills.

There are a number of people in this country who live at tax payers expense, scroungers one might call them who contribute nothing, but seem to spend their days partying and breaking the law of the land.

Could we ship them to Rwanda instead?

I agree, it is funny watching the pro corbyn croud suddenly agreeing with it when it confirms their bias. It still doesnty negate the paid to particpate arghument against a genuine poll though

I didn't say that I agreed with the poll - it's interesting that there are 2 very different polls

I don't think people have enough information about the world refugee situation.

If they had more information - then I guess there might be several camps - those who think "Not my problem, we have enough problems" and those who think we should step up and do our bit.

As I said, Ethiopia has 823,000 refugees. Held in what you would see as camps - with tents and everything.

It's out of our sight - so out of mind.

@Fishwishy

You need to be earning well over £40k to be a net contributer to the tax system. Let's not kid ourselves that these low paid immigrants are the lifeblood of the economy helping to fund our public services.

Well it’s ok I’m happy for my extra tax to pay for someone less fortunate. Hospitals need porters, we need carers, we need fruit pickers and I for one don’t fancy plucking my own Turkey this Christmas. Low paid but essential workers.

Nearly every time I visit the hospital I have an immigrant treating me. But the legal type so that’s ok right? Just the refugees fleeing persecution are the wrong ones who don’t deserve to be here correct?

I’m the child of an immigrant although most people don’t look at the Irish as immigrants for some reason. I bet most people are the descendants of immigrants somehow. As I said, we just got lucky being born here. Stop looking down on asylum seekers like they are unskilled and unimportant. They are not, they are human just like you and me

The poster doesn't have to leave. I didn't tell them too (unlike someone who told me to fuck off to North Korea earlier int he thread) I just said if their perception of this lovely country is as they described then they know where the door is. They can choose to live in all those wonderful countries that are so much better, with such nice people if we disgust her so much

I think this post shows real ignorance of immigration. If you only have a UK passport, the only foreign country you have a legal right to just move to, is Ireland, everywhere else has strict entry requirements for relocation. The days of just being able to move to Europe for UK passport holders are over.

There is no shortage of workers, there's a shortage of employers willing to pay decent wages.

@KyieveMii

Both my husband and I fit the ‘over 40k’ immigrants label. As do many friends. There’s a fair number of us.

Yes. More than a fair number of us. And some of us were born into families with British passports and had to reapply for citizenship. But this government keeps on drumming the drum . . .