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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Just when you think this government can't get any worse - now they are going to send asylum seekers to Rwanda

639 replies

daimbarsatemydogsbone · 14/04/2022 08:25

I didn't vote for this shower. The problem with people arriving (if they make it) in small boats needs addressing but AIBU that sending them on a one way trip to Rwanda isn't the answer?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
OctopusSay · 14/04/2022 11:28

For this to happen someone must have thought

"I know, let's....."

Then shared that with other people who then said "what a wonderful idea" and then other people must have been involved in a plan to make it happen.

If I'd have been there at any stage I'd have assumed it was some warped April Fool's thing. Maybe it was and it got out of hand?

Surely it's another one of those things that will take a lot of colum inches (I wonder which of numerous issues they want to distract us from most?) but will never happen.

Also, sadly, probably quite a vote winner.

sal1n · 14/04/2022 11:31

Lol "a rehash of the origins of the Final Solution." Ludicrous hyperbole. I commented in good faith and this is the level of discourse? :)

Who knows if the scheme will work (a similar scheme did work for Australia however) but once again what is an alternative solution? Could be at least have a vote on open borders? I'm sure it will improve NHS access.

SleeplessInEngland · 14/04/2022 11:31

Still yet to hear how this will stop boats in the channel.

User7493268965 · 14/04/2022 11:32

Good

Zilla1 · 14/04/2022 11:34

Not sure Human Rights law will provide a cast iron defence if the right to life from deterring criminal gangs killing migrants could be successfully argued as a basis for making this appear reasonable in absolute terms, even if less good than just providing a process in intermediate countries. Not even sure about the International Law constraints if this approach is similar to Australia's outsourcing of housing migrants in another nation. I have no experience in this area of law so will be interested in the relevant opinions.

VestaTilley · 14/04/2022 11:35

It’s abominable. Even for them, a new low.

Hospedia · 14/04/2022 11:36

Lol "a rehash of the origins of the Final Solution." Ludicrous hyperbole. I commented in good faith and this is the level of discourse?

Seriously, look up The Madagascar Plan. The Nazis original idea for dealing with all those pesky Jews using up resources that only good German people should have access to was to relocate Jewish people by forcibly shipping them to Africa, specifically to Madagascar. It had a twofold incentive, one was that it meant they weren't in Germany and two it was hoped most of them would die either on the journey or due to the conditions they'd be living in once they reached Madagascar.

It proved to be too costly and was unpopular, plus the shipping channels were blocked so it couldn't come to fruition which is when they decided on domestic-based camps instead.

OctopusSay · 14/04/2022 11:37

@Unphased

Why don’t all you people that want these economic migrants, house them, feed and dress them, give them spending money etc out of your own incomes, not the tax payers?
Economic migrants want to work and support themselves, do some of those jobs we can't fill that mean food is rotting in fields. It's "us" who prevent that.
SleeplessInEngland · 14/04/2022 11:38

"Could be at least have a vote on open borders? I'm sure it will improve NHS access."

Stange to complain about hyperbole and then use the phrase 'open borders'. Prior to this asylim seekers were still processed, immigration laws and visas remained legal frameworks. It wasn't exaclty puritans landing in the New World.

mrshoho · 14/04/2022 11:42

@Hospedia

Lol "a rehash of the origins of the Final Solution." Ludicrous hyperbole. I commented in good faith and this is the level of discourse?

Seriously, look up The Madagascar Plan. The Nazis original idea for dealing with all those pesky Jews using up resources that only good German people should have access to was to relocate Jewish people by forcibly shipping them to Africa, specifically to Madagascar. It had a twofold incentive, one was that it meant they weren't in Germany and two it was hoped most of them would die either on the journey or due to the conditions they'd be living in once they reached Madagascar.

It proved to be too costly and was unpopular, plus the shipping channels were blocked so it couldn't come to fruition which is when they decided on domestic-based camps instead.

It was the beginning of the dehumanisation of people and what that led to is something I never thought would be possible again in Europe. Now though I'm no longer sure?
Hospedia · 14/04/2022 11:43

Who knows if the scheme will work (a similar scheme did work for Australia however)

Wohkd they be the Australian immigration camps condemned in countless independent reports from doctors, human rights experts, UN agencies and various inquiries? The same camps described by visiting doctors as "inhumane and barbaric"? The same camps where there was a recorded 80% prevalence of mental health issues, suicide attempts, and self-harm? The same camps where inmates were abused, sexually assaulted, and physically abused? Where inmates were reduced to trading sexual favours in exchange for basic rights such as a two minute shower? The same camps which were only supposed to be for adult makes but quickly escalated to include women and children due to the number arriving (which actually increased after their inception)? The same camps where even though only 18% of the inmates are juveniles, those juveniles made up 51.8% of the recorded sexual assault victims? Those camps?

Yup. Roaring success.

Original poster
daimbarsatemydogsbone · 14/04/2022 11:44

For everyone who doesn't like this proposal what is your solution?
It's a complex issue but I'd start with -
A vast increase in Police and Border force numbers. One powerful pull factor to coming here is the almost total lack of enforcement of any laws, ever.
We could set up a proper scheme for people to apply or asylum in our foreign embassies.
We could stop trying to do everything on the cheap whilst increasing taxes for poor people and allowing paying tax to be optional if you are rich already.
Secondly, I'd want a government that shows it has respect for the rule of law itself rather than very obviously breaking all sorts of laws including ones it recent enacted and then constantly lying about it.
Thirdly we urgently need electoral and constitutional reform so we aren't constantly governed by an elected dictatorship that the majority didn't vote for.

OP posts:
Original poster
daimbarsatemydogsbone · 14/04/2022 11:45

Who knows if the scheme will work (a similar scheme did work for Australia however)
You have an odd definition of "worked".

OP posts:
hattie43 · 14/04/2022 11:45

Good . Something needs to change .

MarshaBradyo · 14/04/2022 11:46

@OctopusSay

For this to happen someone must have thought

"I know, let's....."

Then shared that with other people who then said "what a wonderful idea" and then other people must have been involved in a plan to make it happen.

If I'd have been there at any stage I'd have assumed it was some warped April Fool's thing. Maybe it was and it got out of hand?

Surely it's another one of those things that will take a lot of colum inches (I wonder which of numerous issues they want to distract us from most?) but will never happen.

Also, sadly, probably quite a vote winner.

My immediate reaction was that it wouldn’t be a vote winner but polls showed half thought it a good idea (and I know polls have their own issues but it was higher than I thought)
SleeplessInEngland · 14/04/2022 11:46

@hattie43

Good . Something needs to change .
How will this stop the dinghies coming over? All the advocates of this scheme never seem to answer that, despite it being the thing they're most enraged about.
MarshaBradyo · 14/04/2022 11:47

@Parker231

It will never happen - human rights lawyers will be all over it and keep it in Court forever
How do other countries get around this do you know?
User7493268965 · 14/04/2022 11:48

I would expect most on MN to be against it but MN is not really representative of the country as a whole

OctopusSay · 14/04/2022 11:48

@Parker231

It will never happen - human rights lawyers will be all over it and keep it in Court forever
Which court, now we're not in Europe? Genuine question, I don't know the answer, but this was one of my (many) fears over leaving.
Puzzledandpissedoff · 14/04/2022 11:50

If anyone has actually read the article properly ...

But many don't, Georgeskitchen; what they enjoy instead is a few trigger words ("refugees, human rights, Tories, etc.), a bit of virtue signalling and a good old Godwins Law froth about nazis

If there was the slightest chance of this happening I'd be as appalled as the rest, but for now it seems just a silly distraction technique - and looking at the fuss it seems to be working

Zilla1 · 14/04/2022 11:50

Well the last time I looked, the UK was still bound by its commitments to the ECHR which I thought wasn't linked to the EU.

Fishwishy · 14/04/2022 11:51

I'm glad the government are starting to get to grips with our soft touch on immigration. This needed doing years ago and has been a major political headache for ages as it is a popular position outside of the chattering ladies of Mumsnet who are hardly representative of the electorate as a whole.

MorrisZapp · 14/04/2022 11:52

@SleeplessInEngland

Tenner says the tories will get so desperate they'll try introducting the death penalty before the next election. Patel did have a consultation on it.
I'll take your tenner because that won't happen.
Hospedia · 14/04/2022 11:52

An article on this from 2020, when the plans were first considered but shelved, stated that the government had admitted they were have to withdraw from the ECHR and other human rights legislation in order to not break the law with their plan.

I'll try find a link.