Just when you think this government can't get any worse - now they are going to send asylum seekers to Rwanda

[daimbarsatemydogsbone]

I didn't vote for this shower. The problem with people arriving (if they make it) in small boats needs addressing but AIBU that sending them on a one way trip to Rwanda isn't the answer?

Don’t you think this government has given us enough crowd pleasing U turns @HRTQueen? I don’t really want a government that changes with the wind to garner votes.

@HRTQueen, I'm really sorry to have to post this. My sorrow is because I totally agree that vulnerable women need safe spaces. I couldn't agree more.

But if you really think it's ok to ships other vulnerable people off to a country with a bad human rights history, well I despair.

I can hold more than one non contradictory view in my head.

I want vulnerable people to be safe, whether those vulnerable people are asylum seekers or women.

@Blossomtoes

Don’t you think this government has given us enough crowd pleasing U turns *@HRTQueen*? I don’t really want a government that changes with the wind to garner votes.

but likewise Labour have set out their stall. I can't vote for them because of their blatant stance on women's rights. I won't vote Conservative either because of their social and economic policies.

Where have I said that I support this policy? I have said it needs to be addressed. All European countries have brushed this aside and a few really are left dealing with the worst of the issue. Also we need to look at what is happening in France do you think Macron if he wins is going to not use these desperate people as pawns to appease the far right. He has already been doing this and this will become more of a problem for the UK

I have suggested that Labour need to come up with their policy or announce they are working on one and put that forward not just cries of how awful it is. That’s Labour’s policy at the moment to be critical of the government without putting forward their plans. Talk about preach to the converted they need to step up to win the next election

Blossom that’s why Tories are successful is because they will change with public opinion. I want a centre (won’t happen) or centre left party in but they need to improve on winning votes

Yes, they have set out their stall. And that’s excellent because we know where we are with them. Johnson will change his mind at the merest hint that there might be a vote to two in it.

Just in case anyone thinks the Home Office is capable of handling this scheme if it did go ahead, let’s take a look at all these situations where the Home Office was found to be acting unlawfully with its treatment of asylum seekers and refugees on its own ground.

Home Office plan for removing migrants unlawful, court rules
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54632985.amp

www.matthewgold.co.uk/high-court-rules-home-secretary-acted-unlawfully-in-accommodating-asylum-seekers-in-inadequate-napier-barracks/

Home Office admits unlawful secret policy to seize all migrants’ mobile phones
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/migrant-phones-channel-home-office-b2002036.html?amp

Home Office acted unlawfully in detaining unaccompanied young people for age assessments
insights.doughtystreet.co.uk/post/102hgm1/home-office-acted-unlawfully-in-detaining-unaccompanied-young-people-for-age-asse

The UK is a cesspit of racist arseholes

No country actually likes illegal immigrants though. Its becoming a problem which needs addressing and sorting. No one has actually got an answer.

When you see education and health care failing all around you, you do end up thinking where are my priorities? It isn't with adults escaping their home country etc. I feel compassion. But I have other things which mean more to me.

@HRTQueen

Fulmine I think it’s more to do with the elections on a few weeks time than distraction from party gate and if the plan works even for a fraction of people that good for the the next election if not then another scheme shall be decided on - it’s the doing something that counts immigration particularly of young man is a hot topic look across the border at France

Party gate ship has sailed now we have the report coming out next week but he has been fined few MP’s have called for his resignation it’s old news

It certainly isn't old news. There are more fines to come, including in particular the one for him attending his aide's leaving do, and all of that will make it ever more obvious that his excuses about not realising this was against the rules just won't wash. That in turn leads to major questions about his misleading Parliament which will be the subject of a debate next week. You may not care about that, but it's a very serious offence for any MP, let alone a Prime Minister. A number of Conservative MPs have made it very clear that they are appalled and that if he doesn't go now it's just a matter of time.

I never said I didn’t care

I have on here and other threads said he should step down/or I believe he won’t do the right thing and step down

It’s not enough there are bigger issues going on. Unfortunately if this had come out earlier and it wasn’t so drawn out we might have had a different reaction. There is a crises in Europe that dominates politics at the moment not our PM lying to parliament

It’s also Easter break from Parliament another convenience

Is it the right time to have a new PM ? No but then should he stay on as PM I don’t think so but I’m not a supporter of his and never have been and the Tories have to weigh up have we got someone to step in well the favourite to that isn’t going to happen now. A leadership contest would seem indulgent and likely to backfire

Look at the polls they are not shifting in the way you would hope probably as many who support him know he lies him being a maverick not really following the rules is part of his appeal

We also have local elections in a few weeks

Laughable the Tories are promoting this as helping migrants!

Let's send Pritti Patel, Johnson and Sunak off to Rwanda on a one way ticket - we don't need racists, liars and lawbreakers here.

I am in disbelief -

Why are we treating Afghan refugees so differently to Ukrainian refugees?

It is not the answer to the people smugglers, it is cruel and degrading.

It is shameful

As the volunteer at a refugee camp outside Dunkirk so eloquently put it:
Rwanda?……..Vraiment?!!

I think it’s a very good thing. We can’t have half the world moving here. The vast majority of people arriving in boats are economic migrants - why else would they arrive with no papers or ID? They throw them in the sea on the way over. And don’t forget they’re coming from France, an entirely safe country.

I despair of all the bleeding heart liberals on her. We can’t take in everyone.

Laughable the Tories are promoting this as helping migrants!

Offer a better alternative.

We currently spend circa £2 billion a year housing migrants, that's an awful lot of nurses for the failing NHS, the simplistic route is to just increase taxes on 'the rich', MN had a massive blow out over Corbyn saying those earing above 75K a year was rich...

We could pretend there is no housing crisis whilst we are struggling to build for a native increase in population, estimated 300k imigrants a year (which is vastley understimated), whilst we are on a build rate of 200k a year houses.

An easy feel good factor is pretending there is a simple situation to a very complex sitution based on 'anti racist' and saying that there is sufficient brownfield sites or vacant housing but that doesn't correlate to the costs of putting migrants up in hotels, and nimbyism.

This is where the left need to come up with a suitable alternative instead of just calling it evil and or racist, a lot of people are not realising that the 'critical thinking' meme is being played against them

The calling out 'racist' has lost its meaning, this is the watershead moment of the left needing to offer proper alternatives

@Fr0thandBubble

I think it’s a very good thing. We can’t have half the world moving here. The vast majority of people arriving in boats are economic migrants - why else would they arrive with no papers or ID? They throw them in the sea on the way over. And don’t forget they’re coming from France, an entirely safe country.

I despair of all the bleeding heart liberals on her. We can’t take in everyone.

The majority arriving in the U.K. are those escaping wars in countries such as Syria and Afghanistan - ie left behind following actions taken by the West. c75% arriving by boat are subsequently granted the right to remain in the U.K.. After escaping from a war, risking their lives to get to the U.K., what life will they have if they are then sent off to Rwanda? Hardly a safe country to make your life in.
Thankfully I think this latest ridiculous idea by Boris will fail hopelessly due to human rights issues and lack of funding.

@AngeloMysterioso

Playing devil’s advocate here- could they really be described as “fleeing” if they’ve travelled through 3 or 4 perfectly safe countries before getting on the boat in Calais? As far as I’m aware there’s no war taking place in France. Or Italy. Or many of the other places they’ve passed through and chosen not to remain in.

Totally agree. They have passed through many safe countries, before reaching the point of crossing the channel to the UK. For whatever, they’ve made the choice they want to come to the UK, rather than needing to, to reach safety.

Many do stay in other European countries - far more than arrive in the U.K. those arriving in the U.K. often choose it as they have family and friends living here.

@Doris86 @AngeloMysterioso and whoever else is asking this question. It’s understandable that social media/mainstream media has done a job in making the public believe that all asylum seekers are coming to the UK rather than staying in continental Europe, but it’s not true.

UNHCR info here:

In the year ending September 2021, Germany received the highest number of asylum applicants (127,730) in the EU+, followed by France (96,510). When compared with the EU+, the UK received the 4th largest number of applicants (44, 190 – including main applicants and dependents). This equates to 8% of the total asylum applicants across the EU+ and UK combined over that period, or the 18th largest intake when measured per head of population.
Germany, France, Spain and Italy accounted for around 70% of all first-time applicants in the EU-27. These figures include all asylum applicants, not just main applicants (i.e. including children and other dependents). World-wide around 85% of all refugees live in developing regions , not in wealthy industrialised countries, and 73% of refugees displaced abroad live in countries neighbouring their countries of origin.

Do you think we should take zero asylum seekers just because we’re a few miles over to the west? What’s the logic? You think other European counties should shoulder all the burden and we shouldn’t, because the North Sea exists?

Receiving 8% of total asylum applicants should not necessitate this level of hysteria.

Ask yourselves a question. You have no choice but to seek refuge in another country. You are escaping a war, you are frightened for your life and the lives of your family, you are prepared to pay criminals a huge sum of money to get you to safety. You arrive in a safe country that offers you shelter. What do you do next? You get on a dinghy and risk being drowned to get to the UK.

I’m not sure about Rwanda as a location…but there needs to be some sort of a deterrent and something done so that people who genuinely need refuge get it and those who are illegal economic migrants are shipped back.

I once had a Bf from an African country (I won’t name which one) he explained to me coming to the U.K. was like a right of passage. “You come make some money, go home with all your designer clothes and then invest in your community”.

He was a lovely man, however I felt this stance was wrong. He did go home of his own accord eventually, his friend was deported.

YANBU.

It's disgraceful.

@Robinni Designer clothes on less than £40 a week? They must have been brilliant at budgeting!

Unless you’re saying they entered as asylum seekers, slipped under the radar and worked cash in hand, unable to rent (they ask for proof of residency now) and obviously not eligible for benefits or a council house? That is obviously a major problem that the UKBA seems occasionally slightly arsed at sorting out. Overstaying without necessity and/or staying illegally is pretty shit, especially as they have a safe home to go to.

He’s super lucky though to make it to the UK safely given how dangerous the journey is. Did he not have problems going home of his own accord on his documents which wouldn’t have shown entry to the UK?

@Zerrin13 Except all but 8% don’t do that (it’s the post directly above yours).

The 8% that do, the vast majority have family or other ties to the UK. Some may only speak English, not French or Italian and feel the risk is worth it to be able to earn money. For survival/family, not designer clothes.

And horrible shit happens on these journeys. Parents separated from children is not as rare as it should be. If you were that parent and heard your child might be in the Uk, would you just put your feet up in France and say, nah he’ll be fine?

If you had distant cousins in the Uk and no-one in Europe would you stay? I remember one of the boys I worked with talking about how he made the decision, if he was worried about his safety doing the crossing from France to the Uk. He said “I didn’t care. I was alone. I was already dead.”

@luxxlisbon

This is perhaps one of the most mental things to come out of this government, and that is saying a lot.

I have no idea why they thought this is would go down well??

People didn't speak about party-gate once they heard about Rwanda. Perhaps Rwanda is a distraction. He is also astute enough to touch on people's fears of being overwhelmed by migrants. Illegal migrant numbers are projected to reach 1,000 a day soon.

[quote BewareTheLibrarians]@Robinni Designer clothes on less than £40 a week? They must have been brilliant at budgeting!

Unless you’re saying they entered as asylum seekers, slipped under the radar and worked cash in hand, unable to rent (they ask for proof of residency now) and obviously not eligible for benefits or a council house? That is obviously a major problem that the UKBA seems occasionally slightly arsed at sorting out. Overstaying without necessity and/or staying illegally is pretty shit, especially as they have a safe home to go to.

He’s super lucky though to make it to the UK safely given how dangerous the journey is. Did he not have problems going home of his own accord on his documents which wouldn’t have shown entry to the UK?[/quote]
@BewareTheLibrarians I don’t know all the ins and outs of it but he and his friend amongst others either came over on holiday or had a years work visa.

The guy I was briefly involved with married a U.K. woman and that enabled him to stay and to leave without penalty.

The one who was deported was found out after a decade of cash in hand work, his partner had tried to apply for tax credits using his details. She went after him and married him. He’s now back.

I got the feeling I was targeted as I had my own home and so I didn’t get any further involved. I was very young at the time.