Calories on the menu - just why?

[Figmentofmyimagination]

Visited pizza express last night to catch up with a girlfriend - first visit since pre pandemic. Ordered my favourite fiorentina pizza with spinach and egg but my enjoyment was somewhat diminished by reading the 950 calorie count on the menu. I understand that this is the law now. Who decided that this is a good idea? Absolutely crazy.

Like genuinely, who leaves slices of pizza on their plate when they’re not technically full up?

What does 'technically' full up mean? I leave food on my plate when I'm no longer hungry. For a standard size sourdough Margarita pizza, that point will kick in before the pizza is finished. I eat the middle before the crust because I know if I don't I shall be full to the point when the next mouthful is a lot less enjoyable than the previous ones before I've eaten all the delicious mozzarella. And I don't have a pudding because I want to continue to enjoy the nice taste of garlic, cheese and perfectly charred sourdough that I've just paid for, and not displace it with sugar.

I'm not a little birdlike thing, I've got a good appetite. Lots of people manage to eat like me and stop when they're no longer hungry.

It never fails, everytime there is a thread about healthy eating habits, calorie count menus, exercising more...there are always the posts about anorexia. It's frigging disgusting the way some of you keep using a mental health issue like an eating disorder because you don't want to take resposibility for eating too much.

It's just so wrong. You want to eat pizza, do. You want to eat sausage rolls do. But don't whinge about menus giving a calorie count because it spoils your dinner. And for crying out loud, stop using people with serious eating conditions as a tool because you want to keep eating what you want without being confronted by the calories so using annorexia is a great way to deflect.

FGS!

@user1471447924

I completely agree with this idea, HOWEVER I also think menus without calories on them ought to be freely available for people who prefer to use those. Eating disorders are just as serious as obesity and I can understand why calorie labelled menus are unsuitable for people who struggle with these.

That is an excellent idea.

Right, so we're all agreed that the two menu option is the best one? Good.

I'd also state that teenagers/ children should be given the no calorie menu as default unless the parent requests otherwise (such as trying to teach about calories etc).

If they did those two things then I'd be happy enough with the change.

@iloveeverykindofcat I'm also autistic and have similar problems, not least because I struggle to eat enough, but I have also had an eating disorder and yes, I would say knowing calories in everything the way someone with an ED would is bad. There's a difference between knowing roughly how many calories you are consuming and having all the calories on a menu memorised, being able to remember if something is 288 rather than 289 calories exactly etc.
This is clearly what I was talking about, not your strawman, because I was responding to the statement that "people with EDs know the calories on everything anyway." It is obviously bad to be so totally consumed by and obsessed with calories in the way people are when they have an ED (and in fact my autism made me "good" at disordered eating because it became a numbers game).

@Alondra erm... some of us brought up eating disorders because we've had them. Not because we 'don't want to take responsibility for being fat'.

Wtf

I am really interested in the conversation around calorie counting in general though. Through the internet I think knowledge or approaches to weight loss have changed and while there are still lots of weight loss diets that are food type based around, so many mainstream weight loss communities now like the big one on Reddit, focus around calorie counting as the overarching principal for weight loss regardless of any diet.

However, ED recovery and popular/celebrity nutritionists seem to be very anti calorie counting.

I find calorie counting really useful because not only does it help me not overeat, it also means I don't undereat as I'm not eating 3 small salads a day without a clue of how much nutritional value is actually in them like I did when I was a teen.

And calorie counting also fits hand in hand with having macronutrient goals like adequate protein to support weight loss and muscle growth is this also bad?

I genuinely don't know, I do have a history of disordered eating as said so it's really hard for me to judge.

@Alondra OK, so what about the posters with or recovering from eating disorders? Are we inventing it as an excuse to eat too much? Or are we talking about our own experience?

@SilverDoe It depends. For some people it will help them eat enough, for me I've discovered that if I think about calories except in the broadest terms I will start trying to reduce even if my goal was originally the opposite. Maybe when I'm more recovered that will change but for now it's very counter productive to think about them in detail.

The calories are the same whether you see them or not, as you expressed surprise at the amount in your pizza that's the point. Many people have no idea about how many calories are in things, and when eating out consume their daily allowance in one go. I agree it can be triggering for some people with eating disorders and their should be separate menus, but it would defeat the purpose if you had to ask for caloried menus as it would only be people who have an awareness of nutrition who asked. Obesity is a ticking time bomb and I do think many have lost all sense of how many calories are in stuff. Although they don't paint the whole picture about nutrition it paints a relevant one.

Being aware of calorie counts does influence my choices. I maintain a healthy weight and am aware of how much my body needs- unfortunately less than average due to my build/ sex/ age, and particularly as my exercise level/ intensity is currently reduced due to injury. I'm happy that I can go to McDonalds and make an informed choice to save a few hundred calories by swapping fries for side salad and my drink choice depending on what my body needs that day.

Restaurant portions are highly variable, as are recipes and it's possible for guestimates to be wildly inaccurate. Many people eat out frequently for reasons such as travel away from home and the surplus calories can add up rapidly. Calorie counts will influence choices on portion size where multiples are avaliable.

There is no one size fits all answer to disordered eating and disordered eating covers a range of eating patterns.

My anorexic school friend would eat two custard cream biscuits for lunch. She liked custard creams so wanted to eat them, but beacause they were a "bad food" they obviously contained lots of calories and to her were a lunch's worth. How transparent labelling would have affected her, I don't know but in her head she was eating way more than 120cals, and her eating was very restricted out of fear of calories and very distorted perception. Some people will be hindered, some helped, but ultimately society's more pressing issue is the consquence of the majority of people overeating.

It never fails, everytime there is a thread about healthy eating habits, calorie count menus, exercising more...there are always the posts about anorexia. It's frigging disgusting the way some of you keep using a mental health issue like an eating disorder because you don't want to take resposibility for eating too much.

Yep- but but but maybe someone with anorexia will find it triggering so instead of having consideration for this and finding ways to make it work we shouldn't do it because I don't want to know I've just scoffed hundreds of calories.

@Alondra

It never fails, everytime there is a thread about healthy eating habits, calorie count menus, exercising more...there are always the posts about anorexia. It's frigging disgusting the way some of you keep using a mental health issue like an eating disorder because you don't want to take resposibility for eating too much.

It's just so wrong. You want to eat pizza, do. You want to eat sausage rolls do. But don't whinge about menus giving a calorie count because it spoils your dinner. And for crying out loud, stop using people with serious eating conditions as a tool because you want to keep eating what you want without being confronted by the calories so using annorexia is a great way to deflect.

FGS!

The reason people are bothered about it is that it could stop them from eating out or diminish their enjoyment of it. Should people just put up and shut up? i don't eat too much. I just want to be able to enjoy my meal, that's all.

@pucelleauxblanchesmains Agree to disagree then. We're both neurodivergent, I was wrongly diagnosed with anorexia before people knew what ARFID was. It's helpful for me, its unhelpful for you. But as someone said above, anyone on this thread explaining that this is actually good for some people with eating disorders is apparently doing it wrong shrugs.

I am totally against counting calories and I say this as slim person.

If you eat good healthy food - loads of veggies, fruit, full fat dairy, good fats, seeds, nuts, and a couple of portions of protein a day- fish, meat, pulses - and forget about processed food, takeaways, refined carbs, and snacks like crisps etc, for 80% of the week, you will never need to count calories again.

The rise in obesity is because so many people do not know anything about what a healthy diet looks like, and eat far too many refined, processed and ultra-processed meals which are high in sugar, refined fats and even artificial sweeteners (which are now shown to alter metabolism in favour of making insulin resistance more likely.)

[quote Calandor]@Alondra erm... some of us brought up eating disorders because we've had them. Not because we 'don't want to take responsibility for being fat'.

Wtf[/quote]
If you have an eating disorder you would have been in the hands of a mental health team and today you'll be very happy to have a menu that gives you a calorie count. Just like a celiac will be very happy to know there is a gluten free menu.

Food information is essential for all of us to make choices. Many of us will, some won't care and many others will whinge because they don't want to be confronted with their choices.

It's why information about what we eat is essential.

@BigSkies22

My definition of “not technically full up” means still hungry and not leaving a slice of pizza because you “feel” like you have too (even though deep down you do want another slice of pizza). Again if people choose to do that then fine, me personally I just eat to appetite, so when I’m full I stop.

At a restaurant I would be able to squeeze in another slice of pizza without too much effort mind. I rarely go out though so I feel like I have to get my moneys worth 😂. It’s why I stopped going to all you can eat restaurants because I was eating more than what I needed too to “get my moneys worth” 😂

Ridiculous I know.

@Alondra

No, not all people with EDs are in the hands of mental health teams and also no, not all people with EDs will be pleased to see calories on menus.

I haven’t got an ED by the way so I don’t claim to know what they would and wouldn’t want. I would assume for some it’s good information and for others extremely triggering.

If you have an eating disorder you would have been in the hands of a mental health team and today you'll be very happy to have a menu that gives you a calorie count. Just like a celiac will be very happy to know there is a gluten free menu

There are so many incorrect assumptions here that my mind is boggling.

And FWIW it's pretty clear in my previous posts that I don't even agree with the idea that we shouldn't post calories on menues because normal/overweight people may feel guilty.

I like it, and hopefully it will make the restaurants provide healthier and lower calorie options.

I have put so much effort into recovering from disordered eating (restriction when I was younger and then orthorexia when older - obsessed with hitting macro targets…I weighed and logged CUCUMBER) I am dreading this as it will be incredibly triggering. On the bright side, I believe smaller restaurants don’t have to do it so if we do eat out we’ll likely go to independent places that won’t have menus like this.

[quote pucelleauxblanchesmains]@Alondra OK, so what about the posters with or recovering from eating disorders? Are we inventing it as an excuse to eat too much? Or are we talking about our own experience?[/quote]
You are just diverting from the original post which has nothing to do with eating disorders.

The OP was complaining her Pizza Express night out was diminished because it had a calory count.

1. If a person is recovering from an eating disorder wont eat at Pizza Express.

1. People recovering from an eating disorder will have a strict diet control from their mental health team.

Stop using them to suit your discourse.

I do see both sides. It’s great for those who want to track but like you say a meal out is often a one off so when people go out they usually want to be able to go and enjoy themselves and have what they want.

YABU. Just because you don’t appreciate it, others will. If you’re that bothered then don’t look.

The calories are the same, whether you know what they are, or not? I think it’s a good thing.