Calories on the menu - just why?

[Figmentofmyimagination]

Visited pizza express last night to catch up with a girlfriend - first visit since pre pandemic. Ordered my favourite fiorentina pizza with spinach and egg but my enjoyment was somewhat diminished by reading the 950 calorie count on the menu. I understand that this is the law now. Who decided that this is a good idea? Absolutely crazy.

@Alm0nd1

elitecomplainer

So have it on request so the huge epidemic of anorexic sufferers whose lives are at risk quicker aren’t put at risk. It could be your child one day.

But why is it different to having calories on everything else? Every single foodstuff (if packaged) has the calorie and nutrition information on. Same with cartons and cans of drinks. Why is it so uniquely triggering to have calorie info on menus?

[quote Tulipblacksmith]@Alondra

No, not all people with EDs are in the hands of mental health teams and also no, not all people with EDs will be pleased to see calories on menus.

I haven’t got an ED by the way so I don’t claim to know what they would and wouldn’t want. I would assume for some it’s good information and for others extremely triggering.[/quote]
Again, instead of focussing on people with eating health conditions, why don't you just focus on the OP initial post?

You don't want to see the calorie count of your pizza? don't look at it!

Simple.

@Alondra

You are very wrong. People in recovery will most certainly be eating out at restaurants, why wouldn’t they? It’s part of normal life. Recovery is also different depending on the individual and may well be lifelong.

Also your representation of how eating disorders are treated within mental health really is laughable and I say that as someone who was commissioned on a project over the summer to help transform a local NHS trust in setting up their ED pathway. (It’s certainly not done yet as it’s complex).

I think we have all agreed it would be best if there were two different menus. One with calories and one without. Again I am not sure how that could be implemented.

It’s a tricky one for me. I do understand why they’ve done it, but I know of far too many lives that have been destroyed by eating disorders/disordered eating.

It’s hard because of course, every single person is different. Personally, it’s not something that would affect me at this stage of my life. However, calorie counting has been something I’ve become far too obsessed with in the past. I had a panic attack once because I’d eaten 20 calories over my measly daily “limit”, however, I’ve worked through my issues and now I see calories for what they are, energy and fuel for my body, rather than something to be demonised.

I know for my younger sister, seeing calories on a menu could be hugely detrimental to her recovery (anorexia).

I can actually see this being detrimental for people suffering from binge eating disorder as well.

Yes, it might be a useful tool to help those who are “watching what they eat” but still want to enjoy a meal out, but if somebody has got no interest in losing weight, do we really think that reading the calories on the menu is going to kickstart them into doing that?

I know it’d be a slight hassle to implement but I do think having the option to not have the calories on display would be best.

@Alondra

I don’t think it would be that simple though would it. You would have to look at it whilst ordering your food?

I speak broadly here, as I’ve already stated I for one am not bothered about the calories on the menus.

@yellowsuninthesky It’s more triggering because a lot of people purposefully don’t read labels of their food to avoid it. Or calories are put on the front per 100g when you might have a different amount on your plate. When making my own food from scratch I have never looked at the calories on a packet of chicken, a couple tomatoes and some pasta and then decided to add it all up. That’s far more steps than it is to stare down at a menu and see that the chicken and pasta dish is 700 calories.

In reality most people don’t go out to eat very often so having a 1000 calorie meal once a month won’t make a bit of difference to their weight. But for someone who is trying to go out and enjoy themselves who has a history of ED it might just ruin their night.

I find it useful. It helps make an informed decision about what I’m eating. It wouldn’t stop me enjoying myself - but may make me more cautious as to calorie consumption the day after. I think that’s a good thing. Also slid it’s not a celebration, just a quick bite while out - I don’t want to eat something too heavy

I love it. I have been overweight in the past and I sussed out a large part of the issue was portion control. Didn't really eat much between meals. Knowing the calories really helps. So many meals that pubs and restaurants serve are equivalent to more than I need to eat in a day! I run everyday and go walking every day too! So with this I can make an informed choice.

And if you find calories trigger you one way to avoid seeing them would be to ask the other person you are with what is on offer.

It can also be surprising that certain foods are more or less calorific than you think. A McDonald’s burger can be between 3-500 cals so is quite reasonable as a meal but the fries are 300+ and so is a shake. As is often the case, it’s all the add-ons. Knowing that if I fancy a fix I’ll get a burger and a Diet Coke.

I had no idea this was the law, but just googled it. Apparently it only applies to businesses with more than 250 employees, so chains essentially. There’s your answer- eat in small independent places.

[quote Tulipblacksmith]@Alondra

You are very wrong. People in recovery will most certainly be eating out at restaurants, why wouldn’t they? It’s part of normal life. Recovery is also different depending on the individual and may well be lifelong.

Also your representation of how eating disorders are treated within mental health really is laughable and I say that as someone who was commissioned on a project over the summer to help transform a local NHS trust in setting up their ED pathway. (It’s certainly not done yet as it’s complex).

I think we have all agreed it would be best if there were two different menus. One with calories and one without. Again I am not sure how that could be implemented.[/quote]
I have a 30 experience in health as a nurse and you are wrong. Most people with eating disorders will feel safer eating in restaurants at the beginning if there is a menu with calorie control. It's small steps all the way. The more information they have, the more in control they feel.

It takes a long time, years, for someone with an eating disorder to trust the environment they eat and most will always have issues with trusting that environment outside their own home. It's the reason eating disorders are a mental health condition and not just a 'fade eating thing".

I will repeat a thousand times as necessary - information is essential in the food we eat. You don't want to read it/know it, you can go to the next item of food.

@hihellohihello

That doesn’t really sound very discreet does it? Getting someone to essentially read out a whole menu to you. Not all EDs are common knowledge to other people.

Thinking about it I don’t think it would be too hard to implement as a lot of menus in the big chains are online now. You could simply just click on the version that you wanted too.

That way everyone would be happy. I believe we do have an obesity crisis and so this will help people to make informed choices, but I also believe there should be something in place to safeguard those people with EDs who do not wish to see the calorie counts. Particularly with the large rise in EDs that mental health services are having to deal with.

There was a report in a newspaper at the weekend that most calories printed on read meals are woefully underestimating the calorie content, some by as much as 40%. I imagine it would be the same in a restaurant. I remember going to the US a few years ago and most eateries had calories printed on the menu, but that doesn't seem to have cracked the obesity crisis over there!

This is what would worry me - how accurate.

I did choose a much lower calorie dish with these menue when we last ate out but then added dessert.

ILsaid they often opt for salad then because they've "been" good have desert and often a drink when they may as well have had something more substatial and then stopped.

I do see a need for the information - heard a program that some drinks in american malls when they were still a thing had drinks with calory content same as a daily adult male amount which people weren't aware of.

I'm just not sure it will have any major effect on the wasitline of the population - I suspect it's a much more complex problem and as obesity and poverty go hand in hand in this country probaby not one this government will really solve.

Calories on drinks is a particularly good idea. People often have no idea about the calories in a glass of wine.

I agree that there should be a no calorie option if people request it.

I know it’d be a slight hassle to implement but I do think having the option to not have the calories on display would be best.

@coffeecoffeecoffee90. The gov.U.K. page expressly says that the regulations include a provision which permits businesses to provide a menu without calorie information if requested. “As a result, people who may find viewing calorie information more difficult may be able to avoid this information in certain situations when eating out”.

@Alondra

I also have many years experience in mental health. I agree with what you are saying in that for some people with EDs this will help them feel more in control.

You are massively over generalising though with the ALL. You only need to read this thread to know it will trigger some people.

To have menu options that would suit both needs would be ideal. As a nurse I am not sure why that concept is so difficult for you to grasp.

Also you can’t unread something can you? It’s not just a case of moving on to the next food item. All the meals will have a calorie count next to them.

Reading this thread is really sad.

There absolutely should be the option in all restaurants to have a menu with the info and one without. It's an adjustment for equality really isn't it. If people need one without for health reasons, eg eating disorders then they should be provided one on request without being questioned or told sorry we don't have any in at the moment. For other people who merely don't want to know how much they consume, unfortunately we need to become more aware of what we eat.

That doesn’t really sound very discreet does it? Getting someone to essentially read out a whole menu to you. Not all EDs are common knowledge to other people.

Just a way round an issue. Not forcing the solution upon anybody. I tend to be pretty open with people I eat with. As for onlookers it is none of their business / could just look like a conversation. Eg, "Oh, do they have a pasta dish with mushrooms in?". If someone found the menu difficult to read for whatever reason they might ask a companion something like that too.

@HaveringWavering

Thank you for that information.

I have a 30 experience in health as a nurse and you are wrong.

This does go a long way to explaining why I was never able to access any help for my eating disorder if this is an example of what odd beliefs HCPs holds about EDs

That doesn’t really sound very discreet does it? Getting someone to essentially read out a whole menu to you. Not all EDs are common knowledge to other people..

Maybe a solution could be colour coded menus that you pick up yourself rather than the server handing them out that way it won't draw attention to the person.

"Stop using them to suit your discourse." What discourse? The discourse that I don't want to relapse? And what the hell do you mean that a person recovering from an eating disorder won't go out for a meal?!

@MedusasBadHairDay

Hence the transformation within the current “offering” of services provided by the NHS for those with EDs.

If you read the NHS 10 year plan you will discover that this is the reason specialised pathways are currently being created in many trusts right now.

Reasons for this….

A) to provide better quality care and understanding for those with EDs and

B) to help with the sheer demand as many don’t even get past the front door due to ridiculously high thresholds in secondary MH teams.

@Tulipblacksmith

www.gov.uk/government/publications/calorie-labelling-in-the-out-of-home-sector/calorie-labelling-in-the-out-of-home-sector-implementation-guidance

Full implementation guidance here- it’s mentioned under “displaying calorie information”.