Calories on the menu - just why?

[Figmentofmyimagination]

Visited pizza express last night to catch up with a girlfriend - first visit since pre pandemic. Ordered my favourite fiorentina pizza with spinach and egg but my enjoyment was somewhat diminished by reading the 950 calorie count on the menu. I understand that this is the law now. Who decided that this is a good idea? Absolutely crazy.

If you eat 3 balanced meals high in fruit and veg a day whilst minimising crap and snacks alongside living a fairly active life you don’t need to count calories.

Obviously you wouldn't need to. Why would someone who can do that need to calorie count? That's the whole point. People who don't have cancer don't need chemotherapy!

Hoards of people don’t count calories and maintain a healthy weight.

Do you think that anyone is advocating for universal, mandatory calorie counting? For all people? The people who don't need it obviously wouldn't do it.

@Alm0nd1

If you eat 3 balanced meals high in fruit and veg a day whilst minimising crap and snacks alongside living a fairly active life you don’t need to count calories. Hoards of people don’t count calories and maintain a healthy weight.

Agreeing necessary and not necessarily any indicator of a healthy diet either

So who are the people that need to count calories as opposed to learning about healthier food choices, a balanced diet and a more active lifestyle?

@Alm0nd1

So who are the people that need to count calories as opposed to learning about healthier food choices, a balanced diet and a more active lifestyle?

Nobody learns about calories in isolation. It's part of a wider conversation about healthy eating from key stage 2 onwards. Children know about calories anyway, so putting them on menus is sensible.

@Alm0nd1 Well, I'm one. I was diagnosed with anorexia as a teen, but only because ARFID wasn't recognised back then (which is what I actually have). I'm autistic and have no intution regarding food at all, and no reliable hunger or fullness signals. So yes, I count calories to prevent myself being more underweight than I am. My diet is balanced - because I deliberately balance it. I know all about a balanced diet but I will never be able to 'feel' what I need to eat. I'm not neurotypical and my brain does not work like that. I have a lot of weird abilities that neurotypicals don't have and a total inability to do many things they can. I am not the only person in the world like this.

@Alm0nd1

So who are the people that need to count calories as opposed to learning about healthier food choices, a balanced diet and a more active lifestyle?

I don't think anyone has said calories are the be all and end all have they? But they absolutely should be an important part of conversations conversations and considerations around diet. If someone can eat intuitively that's great, lots of people can't though and remain a healthy weight, and you can still consume too many 'healthy' foods. It's all intertwined and that's why education is important. Calories aren't the whole picture, but neither is eating what you want or unlimited foods you assume are healthy.

So a menu on request with calories would be ideal and would also protect the many Anorexic sufferers (autistic and not) who need to keep well away from calorie content. It would also protect young children and teens who need to develop healthy relationships with food.

@Alm0nd1 Sounds like a plan to me. I'd be perfectly happy with that. I'm just answering your question about who needs to count calories. Some people do.

@Alm0nd1

So a menu on request with calories would be ideal and would also protect the many Anorexic sufferers (autistic and not) who need to keep well away from calorie content. It would also protect young children and teens who need to develop healthy relationships with food.

It needs to be for the majority so I’d flip that and make it calorie free on request

@MarshaBradyo Well that depends on whether you think it is helpful for the majority or not, which @Alm0nd1 believes it is not. I'm in no position to make a judgement on that, I just find it both false and a bit hurtful to have it stated over and over that no-one needs to calorie count and/or that there's something wrong with it. Just another way I don't 'operate' like neurotypicals I guess. Intuitive eating seems to be held up as some kind of ideal. Well, some people literally can't do that. It's not better or worse. We're just different.

As previously mentioned I'm not a fan as I have suffered with ED on and off since my early teens.

I would prefer to option of choosing a menu without calories.

However, there was a good article today about a lady going to lunch at the Ivy.

She made the point that her meal came in at 4000 calories. She broke the meal down and thought the starter and desert were well worth the big calories. However, the main course she wouldn't choose again because the burger wasn't nice enough to value 1500 calories.

So it was nice to see how a 'normal' person may find it useful.

Ilove I know how hard ARFID is (family member), and the low understanding around it so I get how you feel don’t worry.

I think with public health it’s about usefulness but also about behaviour change and for it to have a chance having an impact on request for the majority wouldn’t be the way to go

But I understand why you post as you do, not everyone is the same

@MarshaBraydo Thank you, that means a lot

The majority don’t need calories on their menu. Some may need educating re healthy eating, that doesn’t mean they need a calorie menu. Having it on request means that children, teens and those for whom a calorie menu would be harmful would be protected.

For it to have an impact it can’t be on request. Most people wouldn’t bother so you’d not get the behaviour change benefits.

If you think about public health measures most of them would not be requested if left to choice. But we have huge issues with £ billions on this and getting worse. It’s hard to implement many things as they can make it worse for the same people - eg increasing cost of unhealthy food can have negative impact making it worse

Ilove you may be different but I’ve found talking about it in terms of fight or flight helpful as most people understand something like a phobia. I know it’s easier for me to do it as I’m not experiencing stress related feelings as the person with it is. But it really moves it away from any idea of fussy eating etc (and the person does have that kind of stress).

I used to have anorexia nervosa and this was my biggest nightmare

@Alm0nd1

If you eat 3 balanced meals high in fruit and veg a day whilst minimising crap and snacks alongside living a fairly active life you don’t need to count calories. Hoards of people don’t count calories and maintain a healthy weight.

And loads of others eat three sensible meals like you say, but still gain weight because of hidden calories in some things. Those people may want to know the calories in their food.

@Alm0nd1

So a menu on request with calories would be ideal and would also protect the many Anorexic sufferers (autistic and not) who need to keep well away from calorie content. It would also protect young children and teens who need to develop healthy relationships with food.

No, a menu on request without calories would be idea. We shouldn't be acting as if being anorexic is the norm when we have an obesity crisis.

"@MarshaBradyo Well that depends on whether you think it is helpful for the majority or not, which @Alm0nd1 believes it is not."

She doesn't really, she's just so focused on the needs of anorexic people, which is understandable if she is the poster who said her daughter is anorexic, that she doesn't care what would be helpful for the majority.

So who are the people that need to count calories as opposed to learning about healthier food choices, a balanced diet and a more active lifestyle?

It's not an either or. I know about healthy eating, I know about a balanced diet and active lifestyle. I have achieved it. I run 10k most days, go walking most days, do resistance exercises and weights and have a healthy BMI. I am 5 ft 7 and size 8.

However, when not eating at home calorie counts help because you don't know exactly how much of everything you are going to get in a meal before you order it. The same meal on a menu at two places can have different calorie counts! Plus many main meal portions are hugely oversized (over 2300 calories in one main!) for somebody with my nutritional requirements. So calorie counts help me choose appropriately. I have been overweight before and this was partly due to slowly matching my portions over the years to my husband and teenage son! Fitness trackers showed me how easily they burn through all the calorie even with less activity than me!

I went for lunch today and saw these in operation. My friends and I weren't even sure that the calories listed were accurate. One dish we thought was really calorific (battered fish, chips etc) was listed as having less calories than a sirloin steak ciabatta. Same with the puddings. Not sure how reliable these new figures will be or how they will be regulated.

The point of the calorie menus is to dissuade people from ordering the high calorie dishes - which will in term lead to restaurants removing them and replacing them with healthier fare.

@Alm0nd1

So who are the people that need to count calories as opposed to learning about healthier food choices, a balanced diet and a more active lifestyle?

I know how to follow a healthy diet now but I also am trying to lose weight as I am obese. I went out yesterday to a place full of chip vans, we found a small cafe and I had a salad for lunch, I was able to calculate manually all the elements of it so didn’t need a menu with calories on it. I would usually Google calories on a chain menu or put it through an app I have. I do want to know how many calories are in what I am eating as I am conscious that over eating and under estimating is the exact reason I got obese!

@Florenz

The point of the calorie menus is to dissuade people from ordering the high calorie dishes - which will in term lead to restaurants removing them and replacing them with healthier fare.

I really hope not.

I think it's really sad that people will now be going out to a restaurant and choosing what to eat for its calorie value and not based on what they feel like eating that day. And I think that's especially bad for children to get into that habit.
I'm really surprised a PP mentioning that children should be taught foods like salmon and avocado are nutritious but shouldn't be eaten a lot because they are high in calories! They would be quite difficult to overeat due to being filling and requiring preparation/cutlery etc. My nephew is a tween and could out eat anyone in terms of potatoes and meat but he is very slim , plays lots of sports and doesn't eat a lot of snacks. I would not be worried about him eating a big meal at a restaurant and I wouldn't want him to be concerned about how many calories were in the meal either.