Calories on the menu - just why?

[Figmentofmyimagination]

Visited pizza express last night to catch up with a girlfriend - first visit since pre pandemic. Ordered my favourite fiorentina pizza with spinach and egg but my enjoyment was somewhat diminished by reading the 950 calorie count on the menu. I understand that this is the law now. Who decided that this is a good idea? Absolutely crazy.

"I was able to calculate manually all the elements of it so didn’t need a menu with calories on it. "

How can you calculate the vinaigrette? Or even the food actually because you don't know the weights? A restaurant salad can be much higher in calories than one you make at home.

"I think it's really sad that people will now be going out to a restaurant and choosing what to eat for its calorie value and not based on what they feel like eating that day."

They won't necessarily. They can still choose the highest calorie option, but they will have the information they need to make their own choice.

" My friends and I weren't even sure that the calories listed were accurate. One dish we thought was really calorific (battered fish, chips etc) was listed as having less calories than a sirloin steak ciabatta. "

This actually shows you why the calorie listing is important - our guesses might be totally wrong.

I think it's really sad that people will now be going out to a restaurant and choosing what to eat for its calorie value and not based on what they feel like eating that day

This comment is why we have an epidemic of obesity! Why on earth would it make you sad that people are making better choices about what they eat?

So many of the comments on this thread are demonstrating why this is a good thing.

I want to be able to make an informed choice.

We're also all talking like restaurant meals containing thousands and thousands of calories per portion is just a given, and the issue is do we want to know or not.

There's no reason the meal default has to be so calorific, maybe having the high calorie count listed on the menus will result in far fewer people ordering it and the big chains will have to review whether slathering everything in cheap oil and fats and then supersizing it is actually something they'll be changing in the future.

@Gwenhwyfar

"I was able to calculate manually all the elements of it so didn’t need a menu with calories on it. "

How can you calculate the vinaigrette? Or even the food actually because you don't know the weights? A restaurant salad can be much higher in calories than one you make at home.

I didn’t have any vinaigrette for this reason It was just salad vegetables and chicken But even most apps now like MFP you can estimate tablespoon volumes of this kind of thing It is easier for me if it’s just printed on the menu then I can decide what’s going to be good value for my calorie budget

I think it's really sad that people will now be going out to a restaurant and choosing what to eat for its calorie value and not based on what they feel like eating that day. And I think that's especially bad for children to get into that habit.
I'm really surprised a PP mentioning that children should be taught foods like salmon and avocado are nutritious but shouldn't be eaten a lot because they are high in calories!

It's absolutely not what I choose to do! The problem is the portion size of the different elements of a meal. I would absolutely love if I could order smaller portions of meals which include some very calorific elements. I love homemade chips, for example but I would forgo them in a pub that does them or agree to take just a few of my husband's (if he orders a meal with them) as I would prefer a larger proportion of my meal to be salad or vegetables with just half a potato's work of chips (usually about 4 largish chips). I love it when places do a very small desert with coffee and prefer to order that over a full sized dessert. I love meat, cheese, avocado, oils and nuts but just don't want my plate overloaded with them and at home eat them in smaller amounts in proportion to the salad and veg.

The problem is pub and restaurant meals sizes are just wrong and with too great a proportion of starchy carbs for a large sector of the population!

I'm not a particularly fussy person but will not enjoy eating a meal which is over 2000 calories when I would rather have a much more sensible amount for my body type!

I think both menus should be available, and just request one without calories on the way in if needed. I think an awareness of calories as part of a bigger conversation about nutrition and eating a balanced diet is a good thing.

@Motherdare I don't know if you are new to this thread but there have been so many examples (including mine) where the calorie counts will make it difficult for people who have suffered disordered eating to make a choice that's good for them. Or healthy people who want to enjoy their occasional indulgence without being reminded how calorific it is.
There are alot of people who have commented on the tiny numbers of people who will be negatively affected but actually if this poll is indicative a third of people don't want this legislation. It should be a big enough minority to provide non calorie counted menu too.

No, I am not new to the thread. I know all the excuses. Anorexia is less of a problem to put society and our NHS then obesity. Governments have to make decisions for the majority. And in my very close experience of eating disorders, sufferers know the calorie content of everything anyway. It won’t come as a shock.

[quote Noseylittlemoo]@Motherdare I don't know if you are new to this thread but there have been so many examples (including mine) where the calorie counts will make it difficult for people who have suffered disordered eating to make a choice that's good for them. Or healthy people who want to enjoy their occasional indulgence without being reminded how calorific it is.
There are alot of people who have commented on the tiny numbers of people who will be negatively affected but actually if this poll is indicative a third of people don't want this legislation. It should be a big enough minority to provide non calorie counted menu too.[/quote]
Really? You think that people with anorexia type eating disorders outnumber the overweight, obese and those who monitor the amount of calories they consume as part of a healthy lifestyle? In a society with so many health problems which are related to diet we have to accept the social cues regarding a healthy diet and portion size are pretty much broken. It is rather enlightening to see how much so when you look at menus and realise the calorie counts far exceed many (the majority of) peoples nutritional needs. It is a bit of a missing link for many when they are stumped as to why they are gaining weight. Oversized portions have become normalised.

Yes, people with anorexia type disorders might find calorie counts triggering. However, it is just as much a disorder to be overeating which contributes to all sorts of metabolic disorders. I know many more people with this latter issue compared to the former.

"28% of adults in England are obese and a further 36% are overweight. This briefing provides statistics on the obesity among adults and children in the UK, along with data on bariatric surgery and international comparisons.16 Mar 2022"

commonslibrary.parliament.uk › ...
Obesity Statistics - House of Commons Library - UK Parliament

"10% of people in the UK experience either anorexia, bulimia or binge eating disorder at some point in their lifetime. The total cost to the NHS associated with eating disorders is £1.26 billion annually.14 Jun 2021"

www.rehab4addiction.co.uk › ...
Eating disorder statistics UK - Rehab 4 Addiction

@hihellohihello I don't know where you read in my post that I said Anorexic ppl out numbered overweight people . I used the word minority but suggested that the number of people who might be negatively affected was higher than the 10 or 12% figures that have been quoted here.
Anorexia is a horrific disease , its not an excuse.

@Noseylittlemoo, thanks for clearing that up.

I agree, anorexia is horrific but then so are the repercussions of obesity and being overweight.

There are always conflicting needs, however I believe steps to tackle a very common health issue (obesity and being overweight) should not be criticised because these steps don't take into account the needs of a different group with differing needs. Instead separate actions need to be taken in order to cater for those different needs of the other group.

I'm so disheartened by this thread - not about the calories on menu per se - I've been clear throughout that the option of mandating a calorie free menu alongside the labelled menu would be a good solution.

But the way in which some posters appear to brush aside, minimise, scoff at, show no care for and indeed trivialise the experiences of parents of younger children/adults with eating disorders has been a revelation.

Eating disorders are increasing, accessing treatment becoming harder, and what treatment there is, is generally "see how you get on managing in the family and we'll try to check in on you every now and again".

It is a bewildering position to find oneself in - watching your child almost actively seeking self destruction, hoping against hope that one day your child can find a path back to you.

On the teen eating disorders thread we often have adults who had ED's as teenagers sharing how important it was to know the love from their parents was there and how much they needed it, even when the ED was doing its best to kill them.

It is messages like these that have given me a boost in my darkest, loneliest days, but we also need support and compassion from a wider community - takes a village and all that - but to be equated to "excuses" is incredibly shameful thing to write.

@AngelaRayner4PM

This worries me so much for eating disorder sufferers, myself included. I don't think it will help obese people, if anything it's more likely to drive them into secretive eating and binge eating and the good/bad food dichotomy that makes it so hard to just follow a balanced diet in the first place.

^

@myrtleWilson

I have no experience as my DD is just 10 but I feel for people like yourself with teen daughters who have EDs. The flippancy on this thread must be very hard to read 💐.

We ate out last night on holiday and didn’t really bat an eyelid at the calories but that doesn’t mean I’m not aware of others and how they may respond to this.

But the way in which some posters appear to brush aside, minimise, scoff at, show no care for and indeed trivialise the experiences of parents of younger children/adults with eating disorders has been a revelation.

I know you are posting about people ignoring or minimising the concerns of people with anorexia, but I feel like your quote applies exactly the other way round.

This thread has been full of ED sufferers or parents of ED sufferers insisting that their way is the correct way, their opinion is the only one that needs to be listened to, their children are the ones that should be protected.

I feel that the concerns of many obese and overweight people, as well as many fellow ED sufferers who actually find calorie information beneficial to them, are ignored as irrelevant or wrong-headed.

Now, I think it's understandable why they have behaved this way. If my child had Hont1986 Syndrome then my singular focus would be improving the world for Hont1986 Syndrome sufferers, damn the rest. But it would make it impossible for me to ever have an objective approach towards public health, especially in cases where the interests of the majority might clash with the needs of my child.

Ultimately I hope I never have to deal with the problems they are dealing with, while also hoping they never have to deal with the problems I am dealing with.

Pointing out that publishing calorie counts caters to the needs of a sizeable proportion of the population is not minimising the problems people with anorexia type eating disorders face.

Why, when there are conflicting needs, does describing how an action caters to a set of equally important needs of a majority get conflated with minimising the needs of a minority? It doesn't. What needs to happen is alternative provision not the removal of provision. Just because wheelchair users might need to use a lift provided this doesn't necessitate the removal of a staircase for the majority to use. Equally just because calorie counts might trigger some people towards disordered eating it shouldn't require the removal of calorie counts on menus which cater for the majority.

Is there any evidence that this caters to the needs of the majority? That there is any positive impact?

@BungleandGeorge

Is there any evidence that this caters to the needs of the majority? That there is any positive impact?

Well, if you look at obesity statistics over 60 % of the population are either overweight or obese. The majority of typical meals served are typically 1000 to 1500 calories for one main. Some are over 2000 calories.

These are unarguably oversized portions - once you add in drinks and other meals it would be very difficult not to exceed the nutritional requirements of an average sized woman for the day. This normalises large portions which means the social cues surrounding food get distorted. Publishing the calorie counts is eye opening. People start to realise how oversized the portions are.

But it works! I bought a 'make your own salad' from the deli, I opted for chicken breast (51cal) against coronation chicken (228).

If you are the sort of person who can and does eat anything, fine, but for us mortals it can be a bit of an eye opener.

Have spoons had calories on their menus for a while now? I seem to remember that they have but not sure if it was a fever dream at this point

yes.