Calories on the menu - just why?

[Figmentofmyimagination]

Visited pizza express last night to catch up with a girlfriend - first visit since pre pandemic. Ordered my favourite fiorentina pizza with spinach and egg but my enjoyment was somewhat diminished by reading the 950 calorie count on the menu. I understand that this is the law now. Who decided that this is a good idea? Absolutely crazy.

Previous ED here, and it's very triggering for me. I've tried to hard not to look at calories over the years and come a long way, went out for dinner with my DH and as soon as I saw the calories I felt anxious and started trying to find the lowest calorie item on the menu, turning to the salad section and wondering how many calories would come off if I didn't have the dressing. Currently pregnant, so less than ideal.

People with eating disorders (including anorexia nervosa) who find the calories on menus helpful are being ignored and shouted down by others

This happens a lot on Mumsnet. Ordinary people have set (and narrow) expectations about people in specific circumstances should react and if people disagree with their own lived experience, they are shouted down and told they're unempathetic or ignorant or don't know what it's really like.

This is why it's all well and good to talk about your own preferences or your own reasons but there is so much flawed thinking about or misrepresentation about, that it's really important to try and establish a genuine understanding through studies etc, about the impact things like this have. As these are social issues there is no such thing as true objectivity and there's no way of having a solution that works for everyone, but it does mean that there's no "winning" a debate on something like this so dismissing (rather than disagreeing with) other people's lived experience is truly infuriating and insulting.

[quote Lockheart]@Calandor do you have a source for that? The only things I can find tell me that suicide is the biggest killer of women (and men) under 30 but obviously that's not strictly speaking a medical cause.[/quote]
I was looking for the same statistic. I can't even find it on eating disorder websites.

35 million overweight or obese people in the UK.

Obesity is a disease.

People with this disease are entitled to help and support.

The numbers of people with this disease vastly outweigh the numbers with other eating disorders, so it is a benefit/risk assessment.

If you are a healthy eater then the calorie figures may mean little to you as it's an occassional treat. If you have the disease of obesity, it is very useful information and can help support decision-making to prevent the disease getting worse.

@Thisisit2022 I've answered this. I got 'medical' and 'psychiatric' wrong. It's the most deadly psychiatric disorder.

But on the alcohol point, they don't often put a shot of vodka in the alcoholics hand do they? And you don't need alcohol to live. You do need food.

No, but in my supermarket for example you simply can't get to the bread or the frozen food without walking past the alcohol. Its sitting there, all big signs and offers, and must be very difficult to resist temptation when every waking moment you are dying for a drink but need to go there for food.

I see both sides, which is why I think they should just have a separate calorie-annotated menu that people can ask for, the same as they can ask for allergen menus.

I think it should be the other way round. There should be a version of the menu with calories hidden available on request. That would be more helpful to the majority of people.

@SilverDoe

Whilst I agree with every word you’ve said I’m struggling to find the dismissive posts? There has been acknowledgement that not all people with eating disorders will be triggered by the numbers on the menu.

I've reported the under 30 stat as misquoted and asked for removal to avoid misinformation.

They'd be better off listing ingredients so you can choose the less processed stuff, never mind the calories content

@PinkestMoon

They'd be better off listing ingredients so you can choose the less processed stuff, never mind the calories content

You wouldn't have space on the menu!

@TibetanTerrah Everyone on this thread who's anti calories being the default has said they should be available on request. If people don't want to request them then frankly that's their problem

SilverDoe

The treatment for anorexia here and around the world is based on the Maudsley approach which is a family based approach and involves handing over control and avoiding calories. It’s not about shouting down. It’s what works.

@PineappleMojito

Nutrition is more than just calories. Calories are only part of the picture. I don’t see this as a helpful intervention particularly for those with ED issues.

This is all that really needs saying on the matter.

@pucelleauxblanchesmains

"Many people with EDs - not just anorexia - can tell you the calorie content in everything anyway." Yes, and that is bad, and that is why recovery involves learning to not spend one's life constantly tallying calories.

It's not necessarily bad to know calorie contents. I do for many things because I have to be aware of my intake to keep to a healthy weight. I don't have any kind of ED and have a healthy relationship with food.

elitecomplainer

So have it on request so the huge epidemic of anorexic sufferers whose lives are at risk quicker aren’t put at risk. It could be your child one day.

[quote Tulipblacksmith]@SilverDoe

Whilst I agree with every word you’ve said I’m struggling to find the dismissive posts? There has been acknowledgement that not all people with eating disorders will be triggered by the numbers on the menu.[/quote]
To be fair this is my fault, I was responding to a poster who said there were such posts, and this is a very fast moving thread which I have been following working so there may not be - I took in good faith that someone had seen them but you're right, I don't know that's 100% the case.

[quote pucelleauxblanchesmains]@TibetanTerrah Everyone on this thread who's anti calories being the default has said they should be available on request. If people don't want to request them then frankly that's their problem[/quote]
Same back at you. If you don't want to request the one without calories, then that is your problem.

@Pyewhacket

It’s about promoting healthy lifestyles and combating the Obesity and diabetes crisis that the NHS has to cope with. The informed will recolonise that. The ignorant will question it.

Actually I think the opposite - while people can see the need for it, they wonder if it actually will make any difference, and some people are ignorant in the sense that they don't understand how it will affect other people. I have fairly severe OCD - I ended up with a lot (about 10) hospital admissions, some on medical wards for 5 weeks at a time etc because my BMI dropped to 12. I almost died. It was ALL about numbers, nothing else. I didn't want to be or look thin. It ruined my life for years and there is no way I would risk a relapse, so I simply wouldn't eat out - which has been a great pleasure for me. I suspect a large number of people are in this category. And again, I really don't think it will impact on the % of obesity in this country. It's not a lack of knowledge driving that.

@pucelleauxblanchesmains

"Many people with EDs - not just anorexia - can tell you the calorie content in everything anyway." Yes, and that is bad, and that is why recovery involves learning to not spend one's life constantly tallying calories.

Why? I don't have hunger and satiety signals due to autism. If I didn't know the calorie content of everything I would have no idea what, when or how to eat. Is that bad?

@Gwenhwyfar There's a difference between being broadly aware of calories - so, knowing a meal is roughly 750 - and obsessively counting them/being able to reel off the exact number in every food going.

I am delighted with this. I use the NHS weight loss app and it's hugely beneficial to have the calories counted for you. I don't go over my limit for the day. Makes me mindful of what I eat.

As someone who struggles with eating disorders this has already been an issue for me

I like it but it's because I expect things to have a million calories when I go out to eat. But it helps me decide whether I'd have a cheeseburger or a pasta as an example - because a lot of things we believe to be 'low calorie' aren't really.

I have sympathy for people with EDs but they are still in a minority and not every legislation or rule can make everyone happy. There are plenty of people with a fear of dogs, religions that consider them unclean but of course they won't expect the Govt to ban dogs on public transport. People who have claustrophobia won't demand that all lifts be shaped differently. People with alcohol allergies won't demand pubs stop serving alcohol as it's triggering. Sometimes people need to accept that their issue which might be a big deal for them, is still an outlier. Anyway you can ask for a menu without calorie options.

And I think this is a great way for restaurants to be forced into developing healthier, low calorie options too.

[quote Tulipblacksmith]@LovelyLovelyWarmCoffee

It will help a lot of people. It would be good to have the option of not knowing though for some people who it may trigger?

Not sure how that could be implemented though. I personally won’t even bother looking at the numbers. I eat out that rarely it’s a non issue.[/quote]
@Tulipblacksmith Yes, after reading more comments I have to agree. Default menu with calories but the option for people to ask for the ‘no calories’ menu.