Calories on the menu - just why?

[Figmentofmyimagination]

Visited pizza express last night to catch up with a girlfriend - first visit since pre pandemic. Ordered my favourite fiorentina pizza with spinach and egg but my enjoyment was somewhat diminished by reading the 950 calorie count on the menu. I understand that this is the law now. Who decided that this is a good idea? Absolutely crazy.

@JinglingHellsBells because, like i just said, I have a history of an Eating Disorder. I am able to cope with this now and try not to think about the calories etc in an obsessive way and can eat out by suspending belief a little.

But seeing them on the menus makes me not want to eat any of the food because it's often a huge number and this fills me with old feelings of shame and fear... and makes me start thinking about all my other meals too.

It's just upsetting to have to grapple with old feelings from my illness and like I said I'd like there to be an alternative menu as I understand it's helpful for many.

It is a sheer waste of time as people who are overweight aren't going to change their behaviour on the basis of a meal in a cafe.

If they wanted to lose weight they would be making sensible choices for the 90% of the time they aren't eating out.

And calorie intake is so individual anyway. It's meaningless unless you know your BMR.

Whether you disagree with putting calories on or not, or whether it’s effective for behaviour change, I don’t see an issue with using calories over protein / carbs etc.

I totally understand “calories aren’t everything” and I’m actually a fan of keto / low carb personally. Not unusual to see me eating full fat cream whipped up in a mousse when I want lose some excess pounds 🤣

But, calories are simple and well understood. Pretty much everyone knows - too many and you gain, too few and you lose. And broadly that is true.

Where I this is helpful, is people can have no idea the total calories in their order. It’s easy to assume that it’s one meal, so no way it’ll be a whole day of calories. Because it’s easy to see a starter, Main and dessert as a single meal. Actually seeing that you could use up two full days worth of calories in one meal can be eye opening.

If you’re someone who is already into keto, carb counting, protein, IF, 5:2, whatever… then you don’t need this info. It’s not aimed at helping you.

@BungleandGeorge

Overeating isn’t an eating disorder. The only one that isn’t restrictive is binge eating disorder which is not the same as ‘overeating’ and can be found with or without restriction.

Bulimia isn't necessarily restrictive either. Most people I've known with bulimia have a largely binge/purge cycle.

@Calandor Yeah exactly - sometimes people don't understand that even seeing the calories in an Americano with milk can set me off, not because white coffee is full of calories but because it easily puts me back in the wrong mindset.

It's just upsetting to have to grapple with old feelings from my illness Maybe you are not over it and need to have some therapy ?

The way the info on the menu is affecting you makes it sound very much as if you are not quite over it.

Our paediatric wards are filled with anorexics. Last time my Dd was admitted she was 1 of 5 being tube fed. It has an impact on services for other kids. There are no inpatient beds and for many inpatient is damaging. Yes obesity kills but over a long period of time. You don’t have time with anorexia. Restriction gets hugely dangerous fast.and the longer a patient is anorexic the worse the outcome. This will prolong the illness for many. It’s nuts.

Anorexia can be a life long illness to battle.

Although if it causes restaurant to try and bring down the calories in their meals that would be a good result of the change

@JinglingHellsBells

It's just upsetting to have to grapple with old feelings from my illness Maybe you are not over it and need to have some therapy ?

The way the info on the menu is affecting you makes it sound very much as if you are not quite over it.

I think that, like self harm, you never fully recover. You are always either active or in recovery.

I don't think it's possible to eliminate that way of thinking once it's been in your head. I'll forever be recovering and therefore vulnerable. No amount of therapy is going to fix that.

What we do is learn to manage the thoughts, to quieten the voice, and one of the ways I've found that helps is to avoid being aware of calories.

I don't very often eat out so I haven't really seen this yet but I would find it very off-putting. Not everyone is on a diet. I also wonder how accurate the calories are. I expect some are much higher than the actual calories and some much lower so what use is it in the end?

The problem is that we need to get away from this obsession with calories. They are meaningless when it comes to long-term health because they don’t tell you anything about the nutritional value of the food.

Someone counting calories could eat a packet of chocolate biscuits and three cups of coffee in a day. Yes, they’d be under their calorie count, but their health would be atrocious. They might lose weight but they are still putting themselves at risk of all the illnesses that go with obesity because of lack of nutrients.

When we will realise that maintaining a healthy weight and absence of disease has nothing to do with calories?!

Many will never just be over it.

There is some real ignorance on here re eating disorders. The next time your child can’t be admitted to paediatrics because the ward is full of patients on hourly obs, food plans and tube feeding you may not think this is so trivial. Or when your previously well child gets swiftly hooked into a life threatening condition on the back of an app and social media that is part of teenage life.

@JinglingHellsBells

It's just upsetting to have to grapple with old feelings from my illness Maybe you are not over it and need to have some therapy ?

The way the info on the menu is affecting you makes it sound very much as if you are not quite over it.

Most people with an ED are never 'fully' over it. I am able to eat food that I enjoy without too much thought. From fried food to desserts... except when the confronting reality of the calories is forced into my face bringing back memories.

Like I said, why is it so hard to just offer a calorie free menu so that both groups are catered to?

Also the waiting list for NHS ED therapy for adults? Don't make me laugh. I'd be waiting a decade.

@JinglingHellsBells

It is a sheer waste of time as people who are overweight aren't going to change their behaviour on the basis of a meal in a cafe.

If they wanted to lose weight they would be making sensible choices for the 90% of the time they aren't eating out.

And calorie intake is so individual anyway. It's meaningless unless you know your BMR.

A lot of people eat out quite often so can't keep the sensible eating just to eating in. And calories aren't meaningless without the BMR. A 1500 calorie meal is a lot for anyone unless it's their only meal of the day.

@Calandor do you have a source for that? The only things I can find tell me that suicide is the biggest killer of women (and men) under 30 but obviously that's not strictly speaking a medical cause.

It really says something when secondary mental health services cannot cope with extra demand so a brand new pathway has to be created specifically for eating disorders. Plus all those on here saying they have EDs and it won’t affect them, well that’s good news for you but it will most certainly have a detrimental effect on a lot of young women with EDs who lets face it, are probably just out for a bite to eat with their mates trying to forget about their illness.

They go online and they’re bombarded with images of perfect bodies, now they can’t even go for a pizza without stressing about the calories.

It’s a token, cheap gesture from government so they can be seen to be doing something.

But that requires people to think/be motivated to look. If it's in front of me, personally, it will definitely help me make more conscious decisions in that moment when I'm looking at the menu. Sometimes they'll be good, sometimes they won't grin, but it will definitely help me

But the poster I quoted had literally done just that - looked it up on the website the day before the meal. If you are on a diet you can look in advance, or ask for a menu with calories. We often look up menus in advance as DH has some allergies, it's not difficult.

I agree that the info should be available. That doesn't mean it should be on every menu. There should be an option.

I like it. It can be really surprising what has more calories, things can be unexpectedly loaded with fatty sauces etc. While a restaurant is a treat it guides me on portion size etc, means I might choose to for example share something with DH instead of ordering a whole one just for me.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/society/2021/jun/06/uk-needs-national-register-for-eating-disorder-deaths-mps-say

And that doesn’t account for the near death experiences and continual traumas so many families are living with.

"Someone counting calories could eat a packet of chocolate biscuits and three cups of coffee in a day. Yes, they’d be under their calorie count, but their health would be atrocious."

It's difficult to do this long term. I don't even like healthy food much, but when I make an effort with calories it just tends to happen that I end up eating more healthily because it's difficult to fill up on tiny amounts of unhealthy food.
Also, if the person loses weight with the biscuits diet, that could still improve their health, even if the diet itself isn't healthy.

[quote Lockheart]@Calandor do you have a source for that? The only things I can find tell me that suicide is the biggest killer of women (and men) under 30 but obviously that's not strictly speaking a medical cause.[/quote]
Sorry it wasn't of women under 30 specifically but this article says it's the 'biggest killer out of all psychiatric illnesses'.

amp.theguardian.com/society/2021/jun/06/uk-needs-national-register-for-eating-disorder-deaths-mps-say

Apologies I seem to have misread 'psychiatric' and 'medical'.

Still shocking

Also the waiting list for NHS ED therapy for adults? Don't make me laugh. I'd be waiting a decade.

That's if you even get taken seriously enough to be put on a list.

I became disabled at the peak of my ED. I went from doing 2-3 hours of exercise and eating a single slice of toast every day, to being completely stationary and actually having to eat properly (funnily enough my family wouldn't allow me to starve myself), so gained weight. When I finally plucked up the courage to tell the doctor I was struggling with my mental health and the urge to restrict again, they looked me up and down and told me I looked fine.