Calories on the menu - just why?

[Figmentofmyimagination]

Visited pizza express last night to catch up with a girlfriend - first visit since pre pandemic. Ordered my favourite fiorentina pizza with spinach and egg but my enjoyment was somewhat diminished by reading the 950 calorie count on the menu. I understand that this is the law now. Who decided that this is a good idea? Absolutely crazy.

Thanks @Calandor, I'll have a read.

" If you are on a diet you can look in advance, or ask for a menu with calories. We often look up menus in advance as DH has some allergies, it's not difficult."

It's impossible for me. I don't usually know where I'll be eating out until it's actually happening. It's either on my way somewhere so depends on my location or after a few drinks with friends we go and look for somewhere to eat. There's no way I could look it up the day before.

Eating disorders are very complex and more of a mental health condition from what I understand of them. Especially anorexia.

Surely if patients with eating disorders can see nutritional information on food choices when eating out then this means they can make more informed choices?

I’m lucky as I’ve rarely dieted (or only on and off). A cousin of SIL has suffered with bulimia (you wouldn’t know it to look at her) and whenever we’ve been out or she’s come to family events with food she seems fine with eating but who knows?

I recall reading a book and seeing a tv programme about a young woman with anorexia/bulimia and I had none of these issues but she looked so normal. An upper class girl I think? In 1980s? I don’t think she would’ve coped with calories in restaurants.

@Gwenhwyfar

Even if you lost weight “just” eating biscuits there is no way you would be healthier. Slimmer yes but not healthier.

You would have nutritional deficiencies that would erode health in the short and long term.

Better to be a bit fat whilst eating a variety of foods than just eating biscuits and being skinny.

www.itv.com/news/2022-01-03/rising-number-of-children-admitted-to-hospital-for-eating-disorders

I am dreading my Dd turning 18. The thresholds are now incredibly low due to services being inundated. She is going to be walking around bombarded with figures telling her not to eat. It was hard enough before.

@TheOGCCL

Dr Mosley did a documentary on this recently and what really came through was that the well trodden narrative of individuals with apparently no willpower or self control are the reason the country is obese is false. It’s more because our world is effectively designed to make people fat, from the buy one get one free offers on crisps to the way you need a car in many places.

I actually find the calories useful but I do think it smacks of putting all responsibility back on individuals. Restaurants could have a better offering of healthier options in the first place, eg fruit based desserts.

So why isn’t everyone obese? Plenty of people manage to take responsibility for their own health and make good choices. We’re all marketed to in the same way.

I find it useful.

I like to know whether the chicken salad I have ordered is actually higher in calories than the steak and chips. Or I can choose Pizza A over Pizza B because it has 150 fewer calories.

[quote Tulipblacksmith]@Proudboomer

But low carb definitely does not mean low calorie.

My bacon and eggs fried in olive oil this morning for example.

High calorie breakfast with no insulin spike at all.[/quote]
No carb in meat or eggs so it is a good choice breakfast for a diabetic but then have to watch the salt and cholesterol. I eat the same but to limit the fat content I grill the bacon until crispy and don’t use oil to fry the eggs.

It's impossible for me. I don't usually know where I'll be eating out until it's actually happening. It's either on my way somewhere so depends on my location or after a few drinks with friends we go and look for somewhere to eat. There's no way I could look it up the day before

Which goes back to my suggestion of having a nutritional information list / alternative menu with calories available.
It doesn't have to be the default option to list calories on every menu.

My DD’s anorexia was fuelled by numbers and getting numbers as low as she can. It’s not about informed healthy choices when it’s number driven.

@Gwenhwyfar

"Someone counting calories could eat a packet of chocolate biscuits and three cups of coffee in a day. Yes, they’d be under their calorie count, but their health would be atrocious."

It's difficult to do this long term. I don't even like healthy food much, but when I make an effort with calories it just tends to happen that I end up eating more healthily because it's difficult to fill up on tiny amounts of unhealthy food.
Also, if the person loses weight with the biscuits diet, that could still improve their health, even if the diet itself isn't healthy.

It’s not going to improve their health because the nutritional value is negligible. That is much more harmful in the short term than obesity

But it's just a fact? It's not a personal attack to ruin your day, just a fact.

@Proudboomer

Eggs do not increase cholesterol levels and the olive oil won’t either. There’s nothing wrong with good fats.

@pattish

Dr Andrew Jenkinson explains the answer to your question very well in his book “why we eat too much”. He is an NHS bariatric consultant if anyone is interested.

@Gonnagetgoing most bulimics are normal weight or even overweight due to bingeing. And they can often cope with restaurants as they can vomit the calories up. Their issue is often less with getting the food down and more with keeping the food down. So your SIL is more likely to struggle after eating than before.

If you've never had one you will never be able to 'get' it tbh. It's a mental illness. I've never had bipolar or depression so have no idea how that would feel...

@AwkwardPaws27

But that requires people to think/be motivated to look. If it's in front of me, personally, it will definitely help me make more conscious decisions in that moment when I'm looking at the menu. Sometimes they'll be good, sometimes they won't grin, but it will definitely help me

But the poster I quoted had literally done just that - looked it up on the website the day before the meal. If you are on a diet you can look in advance, or ask for a menu with calories. We often look up menus in advance as DH has some allergies, it's not difficult.

I agree that the info should be available. That doesn't mean it should be on every menu. There should be an option.

I know, the poster you quoted was me. However, the only reason I've done that today is because of this thread - wouldn't have crossed my mind otherwise.

So many teens are on the my fitness tracker which is so number orientated. Can you not see how dangerous this is going to be for teens?

[quote Tulipblacksmith]@Gwenhwyfar

Even if you lost weight “just” eating biscuits there is no way you would be healthier. Slimmer yes but not healthier.

You would have nutritional deficiencies that would erode health in the short and long term.

Better to be a bit fat whilst eating a variety of foods than just eating biscuits and being skinny.[/quote]
Absolutely. This is why we have to get away from measuring calories as ‘health’.

Imbalances in blood sugar, toxins from trans fats and deficiencies in major vitamins and minerals would mean that even if you were thin you’d be heading for a chronic or life-threatening disease, not to mention uncomfortable symptoms like fatigue and IBS.

I very rarely eat out because, although I am currently a healthy weight, I put on weight very easily. I know from experience that even if I make a consciously healthy choice, the next day I will be 2-3lb heavier and it can take a week to get the weight off again. So a listing of calories will make no difference to me; firstly, my method of healthy eating isn't calorie-counting and secondly, because I have calorie-counted in the past, I could more or less work out the calorie content of the dishes in my head anyway.

I hate it as I'm slim and only have the occasional treat, so don't need to know the calories when I do.
However, it made my husband make a sensible decision last Sunday when he went for a standard cooked breakfast instead of a large one - saving 900 calories!

I actually find this so helpful, because I gain weight easily so I have to count calories. It helps me opt for that steak with undressed salad. Also I've been surprised by the healthy sounding dishes, by how calorific they are. So instead of choosing a healthy sounding dish, I can usually have what I really wanted.

@DaisyStPatience

I understand the concern for people with restrictive eating disorders but there are a huge number of overweight and obese people in this country who also have eating disorders and evidently something needs to be done on that front.

The reality for people with alcohol and gambling addiction is that they're constantly confronted by triggers too, the same goes for many other traumas, it just isn't possible to avoid.

The vast amount of overweight people are not routinely stuffing themselves with a million calories at chain restaurants. Just like the sugar tax, this will do zero to combat obesity.

To really do that, you'd have to tackle the root causes which the government don't want to do because they might have to admit that they're dropping the ball on numerous things (like making sure people have the space/time/ability to cook healthy food. Or the money to buy it in the first place. Or the energy to cook from scratch...)

As a PP said, anorexia affects 12% of women, 1% of men.

Yet 2/3rds of adults are overweight or obese.

Why are people going on about how triggering it is for the minority, when it will help the majority, at the very least with awareness and informed choice? Many people with EDs - not just anorexia - can tell you the calorie content in everything anyway. It's the overweight people that are unaware.

I used to have one of two curries at my favourite indian restaurant. One has twice as many calories as the other, as one is cream based and the other tomato based. It wasn't that it wasn't obvious if I'd thought about it, I'd just never thought about it.

I find it helpful. The other night we went for an Italian meal with family at a small independent restaurant. I knew what I was going to be having but I couldn't let myself eat the rest of the day. Pizza tasted amazing, but the anxiety and feeling of loss of control beforehand was awful - and I still couldn't eat normally the following day and did extra exercise. If we had gone to Pizza Express, I'd have been able to find out how many calories were in whatever I was going to choose beforehand and avoided all of that stress, and maybe had some leftover space to eat other food before we went.

Guess what, you can reduce the amount you are eating in restaurants by having a smaller sized portion of your favourite food. You don’t even have to ask the waiter.
You just leave some food on the plate.

Amazing but true. You don’t have to eat that entire pizza.