To be shocked by how blasé alot of MNers are about abortion

[Nothanksloveimfine]

Yes its healthcare, yes free and safe abortion is completely necessary because the alternative doesn't bare thinking about, yes everybody has a right to choose what's best for them and yes I am pro choice (whilst being explicitly pro life with regards to my own pregnancies)

With all that said and done, I am quite alarmed at how a sizable % of MNers are so blase about abortions. Whenever a poster is talking about being pregnant with an unplanned baby and in a less than perfect situation, I see alot of posters urging her to just have a termination like its a routine stroll through the park.

I've just read a heartbreaking article which is being discussed at the minute and some of the replies on that thread are so cold. It made me cry and I'm wondering how the hell people can read that and not be impacted by it, completely steamrolling over the tragic loss of life by saying things like "that's a rare case" abortion is a good thing bla bla bla.

Does anybody else share my view or am I the odd one out?

It's like people are so determined to bang the "right to abort" drum, they have no regard for the babies whatsoever.

Abortion can be totally necessary but it's also pretty sad IMO.

You can care about the mother without being so cold and dismissive of the baby they were carrying.

Caring about the babies doesn't mean I hate women, I am one.

Yes I've name changed because I don't expect this will go down well here.

I find it much more alarming how lightly people suggest adoption in these circumstances. Seemingly without a second thought of the impact on mother and baby.

still pro choice to as late as necessary.

Horrific comment.

@TheWildRumpyPumpus

I find it much more alarming how lightly people suggest adoption in these circumstances. Seemingly without a second thought of the impact on mother and baby.

I agree. Its poor child growing up. Plus there's no guarantees of what life your may have. I couldn't live with myself.

I think they suggest it gently as a reasonable choice in bad situations.

But it's often not suggested gently.

👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏

WELL SAID OP. And very brave of you to say, too. You will probably get flamed, I haven't read the thread and don't want to as you have temporarily restored my faith in humanity on this topic and I don't want it spoilt just yet.

@echt

Whenever a poster is talking about being pregnant with an unplanned baby and in a less than perfect situation, I see alot of posters urging her to just have a termination like its a routine stroll through the park

Never happened. Except in your head.

I think it has happened. I may have been making the suggestion as I think it is sound advice.

Have a baby with an abusive partner and you're stuck with him for life.

@MissMaple82

There was one woman on here that wanted a fairly late termination in my opinion and let it keep growing because she couldn't make up her mind, she had it done eventuallyi think - either have it done when it is a mass of cells or don't. To let it keep growing is totally unfair. Google the silent scream

@MissMaple82 The 'silent scream' was proven to be FAKE. The foetus isn't capable of feeling pain (has no brainstem and no nerve receptors) until the third trimester. I suggest you don't be so gullible to fall for pro-birther lies, especially INFAMOUS HOAXES like the 'silent scream'. I didn't think there was anyone left in 2022 that didn't know it was debunked as a massive, massive infamous hoax.

Despite the fact that I suffered for years with infertility and in my own situation, I considered my son to be a fully fledged human the second that second line showed up, I don't consider a fetus a baby. It's really just a ball of cells, there's no need for the emotive language about babies etc, they aren't a baby at that point.

You're either pro choice or you're not. Deciding not to have an abortion is included under the pro choice umbrella so there really is no need to say your pro choice except in your own circumstances. It shows you don't really know what the phrase means.

Women come here for advice, abortion is a solution to some situations. There's nothing cold about it, it is a medical procedure that has helped millions of women.

@Dairymilk50

still pro choice to as late as necessary.

Horrific comment.

@Dairymilk50 As late as necessary.

How is necessary a horrific comment? Do you understand what NECESSARY means?

I'm pro choice, completely and unreservedly. I've had an abortion.

I do think it's important for women to have a proper choice though. Having to terminate a wanted pregnancy because of poverty or ongoing DV /abuse for example, is just sad - and avoidable and not really a positive choice. If we offered better support to women who needed it- like secure housing, proper financial support, affordable childcare etc. that would be a proper choice for women who wanted it. Bold to stress the woman's choice which trumps anything (and everything) else.

Do I think that some people are more casual about abortion than I am? Yes. Is it anything to do with me? Absolutely not.

When I was a young 19 year old, accidentally pregnant but in a relationship (he didn't want the baby) I really felt like I had no choice, other than to terminate. I did have a choice but was so alone and scared that I just couldn't see it at the time, and no one really asked me how I felt, or helped me to explore what the alternative could have been (a very fine line I know). I suffered guilt, grief, shame and anxiety for years afterwards. The terror that I'd scuppered any chance to have babies in the future was a real fear for years. I had no idea I'd feel like that. I was so casual about it at the time. There was no information, no support post-abortion, and very little at the time of crisis either. None. I do hope it's better now.

Abortion can be hard to do and live with. But it can be as straightforward as a visit to the dentist for some. But in the end all that matters is that women have the choice and we should unreservedly and respectfully support that right - and support her (however she needs) through and after the event.

@catwomando

I'm pro choice, completely and unreservedly. I've had an abortion.

I do think it's important for women to have a proper choice though. Having to terminate a wanted pregnancy because of poverty or ongoing DV /abuse for example, is just sad - and avoidable and not really a positive choice. If we offered better support to women who needed it- like secure housing, proper financial support, affordable childcare etc. that would be a proper choice for women who wanted it. Bold to stress the woman's choice which trumps anything (and everything) else.

Do I think that some people are more casual about abortion than I am? Yes. Is it anything to do with me? Absolutely not.

When I was a young 19 year old, accidentally pregnant but in a relationship (he didn't want the baby) I really felt like I had no choice, other than to terminate. I did have a choice but was so alone and scared that I just couldn't see it at the time, and no one really asked me how I felt, or helped me to explore what the alternative could have been (a very fine line I know). I suffered guilt, grief, shame and anxiety for years afterwards. The terror that I'd scuppered any chance to have babies in the future was a real fear for years. I had no idea I'd feel like that. I was so casual about it at the time. There was no information, no support post-abortion, and very little at the time of crisis either. None. I do hope it's better now.

Abortion can be hard to do and live with. But it can be as straightforward as a visit to the dentist for some. But in the end all that matters is that women have the choice and we should unreservedly and respectfully support that right - and support her (however she needs) through and after the event.

This is such a thoughtful post. I agree. I'm sorry you had such a lonely time when you needed support.

@Brideandprejudice

I don't read that type of thread on here because I find them chilling. I'm pro life.

I'm pro life.

You mean pro Gestational Slavery, and anti-life for the woman, @Brideandprejudice .

@GCAcademic

I’m not sure that you’re a minority, OP. There seem to be a lot more forced-birthers on here than there used to be. All of them claiming to be pro-choice, oddly.

Yes, I agree.

And my abortion wasn't sad. I am so glad that I had access and a choice.

Mumsnet sometimes feels like a brainwashed cult tbh
I am pro choice, have had an abortion that I do not regret but do think about from time to time.
You are absolutely right, ive seen plenty of posts that ends with replies pushing abortion not just giving it as an option so you are not imaging it.

People need to be matter of fact about it.

Being emotional and crying for the poor babies is part of why women are often denied control over our own bodies.

@RampantIvy

In the early stages most people don't think of an embryo as a baby, just a bunch of cells. You are using emotive language by calling an embryo a baby.

This.

I’m more shocked that so many MNers fall for the forced birth arguments masquerading as concern for babies. “Of course I’m pro choice, just only by these incredibly specific and difficult to access means that render it effectively unavailable for most women!” I see you.

That article was a gross piece of propaganda which is why it's important not to get caught up in the emotional part of it. Of course that was a terrible situation and I very much feel for the woman in that situation, but to use it to support a suggestion that women's rights should be reduced is unfair.

@MrsTerryPratchett

You know what I find cold? Encouraging someone with no supports and an abusive partner to have a baby because, "you'll love it once it's here" and 'I just couldn't'. I've seen it on here and it's terrifying. Women chained to abusive men for decades because they can't face an abortion. Not that they want a child. But that they can't abort.

Unwanted children being brought into the world is terrible and I see the sharp end of that every day.

Absolutely this!

It's only okay to have an abortion if you are devastated and guilty? Is that what we want for women today?

I don't think anyone wants a woman to have to go through an abortion. It's just balancing the long term implications on the woman's future, and quite frankly the potential child's future. People give that advice because the woman is in a precarious situation, not because they think women should routinely abort for no reason.

Actually I think it's cruel to guilt people and make a really difficult decision even worse. Being pragmatic is not guilting someone.

@Dairymilk50

still pro choice to as late as necessary.

Horrific comment.

Why? Because I recognise the need for late term abortions if medically necessary?

I actually feel the total opposite - on Mumsnet, I see so many threads where a woman is clearly in a terrible situation to have a baby, abusive relationship, no home, etc and it feels like other posters really tiptoe around suggesting that maybe continuing the pregnancy might not be the only option.

Also see a lot of women saying in what feels to me a blase way "I fell pregnant accidentally" as an explanation for having a baby in a difficult situation without seemingly having even considered a termination.

I think it's a see what surprises you thing - I don't really have any religious friends so abortion is not a particularly taboo topic and I think in my circle it would be far more frowned upon to have a baby that you weren't prepared for. I am sure you would think that callous but there we are.

Pro choice means no conditions on the ‘choice’.

Old/young, single/together, early/late, sad/not sad. It’s the woman’s CHOICE

@EarringsandLipstick Thankyou. I think that's why I'm quite passionate about proper support for women at the time of crisis. And probably why I'm such a MN fan as they are some wonderful women on here who offer wisdom and a listening ear - something that would have helped me a lot.

@MrsTerryPratchett

OP in case this isn't goady, have a Google of the Overton window.

There's an issue when the mainstream discourse is 'abortion is desperately sad' rather than 'abortion is needed healthcare and should be free and available'. Because the window moves and if the mainstream moves, so do the extremes and no one wants to be the American Christian Right. You are moving the window.

The 'cold' women are trying to move it back and preserve women's rights.

THIS

All day long THIS!

No amount of "It's a baby", "using abortion like contraception" "late abortions are awful, it's a viable baby" and all the other deliberately emotive blather about needing to keep that ickle life alive is going to change that fact. You can lie to yourself - no woman chooses abortion as a contraceptive method; late abortions are an entirely medical issue and no, it ain't a baby - but you have no right to slap your own entirely unaffected yet overly emotional response onto a woman who is already struggling to cope.

When you see a 'cold response' here it is another entirely unaffected woman trying to remind an upset woman that she has choices, need not feel guilty about making a choice and should make that choice entirely for her own benefit.

And yes @catstale! It is. But if wanted, if it continues to develop, it will become a viable foetus and then, when born, a baby. No amount of emotional blackmail will change that. Cos that's how biology works.

You mean pro Gestational Slavery, and anti-life for the woman

There's no need for abuse like this. You're free to hold different views. You don't need to use derogatory language.

Abortion is better than an unwanted child