To be shocked by how blasé alot of MNers are about abortion

[Nothanksloveimfine]

Yes its healthcare, yes free and safe abortion is completely necessary because the alternative doesn't bare thinking about, yes everybody has a right to choose what's best for them and yes I am pro choice (whilst being explicitly pro life with regards to my own pregnancies)

With all that said and done, I am quite alarmed at how a sizable % of MNers are so blase about abortions. Whenever a poster is talking about being pregnant with an unplanned baby and in a less than perfect situation, I see alot of posters urging her to just have a termination like its a routine stroll through the park.

I've just read a heartbreaking article which is being discussed at the minute and some of the replies on that thread are so cold. It made me cry and I'm wondering how the hell people can read that and not be impacted by it, completely steamrolling over the tragic loss of life by saying things like "that's a rare case" abortion is a good thing bla bla bla.

Does anybody else share my view or am I the odd one out?

It's like people are so determined to bang the "right to abort" drum, they have no regard for the babies whatsoever.

Abortion can be totally necessary but it's also pretty sad IMO.

You can care about the mother without being so cold and dismissive of the baby they were carrying.

Caring about the babies doesn't mean I hate women, I am one.

Yes I've name changed because I don't expect this will go down well here.

I totally agree with you

You support womens rights to abortion but you want everyone to feel sadder about them
What a crock
Abortion is a GOOD thing. It exists for women who need it and that's GOOD. There is nothing to feel sad about. No thanks. I'm happy abortion exists.

I've just read a heartbreaking article which is being discussed at the minute and some of the replies on that thread are so cold. It made me cry and I'm wondering how the hell people can read that and not be impacted by it, completely steamrolling over the tragic loss of life by saying things like "that's a rare case" abortion is a good thing bla bla bla.

That woman was seen in hospital, and given abortion pills to take in hospital, and no one realised that she was 30 weeks pregnant. I don’t see how it’s blasé to say that that is unbelievably rare.
It’s not acceptable, and it’s absolutely something where they should look into how it happened, but I don’t think one case undermines that as a whole, abortion provision is a good thing. That doesn’t mean I don’t think that case is tragic and awful.

@DifficultBloodyWoman

I have NEVER EVER seen the advice ‘you should have an abortion’ on MumsNet.

The absolute closest thing to that is ‘an abortion is an option’ which is vastly different to the ‘active encouragement’ or ‘urging her to just have an abortion’ that you mention in your posts.

So, yes, OP. I think you are in the minority.

How can you NOT have seen this?

Many, many times I've seen posts like: 'Honestly OP, in your situation, I would terminate. Having a baby would tie you to this abusive twat' or similar.

Yes, I've seen many posts along the 'your body, your choice' variety. But I've absolutely seen posts telling OP she should abort & would be mad not to.

I'm not making a comment on if that's right or wrong - but it absolutely happens.

@Dairymilk50 women are not “selling themselves short” by not getting married. Also why should women “demand marriage”? How would that even be possible? Both people have to consent to get married.

I was also certainly “good enough to get married” and “good enough to have his baby” (as your Nan might say) but I choose not to marry. Marriage isn’t a privilege for men to bestow on women!

I’m from a culture where marriage is important too. But I happily chose to be unmarried and unashamed. I find the mn attitude that it’s some kind of higher status for women regressive.

I do think we should have a better child support system - there should be no difference in financial provision for children whether or not the parents were married. In reality there often is where the man is the higher earner sue to our system of child support not being fit for purpose.

My dds have double barrelled names. Even if I was married that would be the case. My daughters so why not my name. I have never been questioned on it and travel a lot.

I agree with you OP! 100%!!
I'm pro choice and have even been with a few friends to get their termination, but I would never get one myself! I'm currently pregnant with an unplanned pregnancy in far less than ideal circumstances, but it's not the babies fault. I personally see it as killing my baby, others don't and I guess that's life, everyone's views are different, but it does sadden me too to see so many people just so casual about it.

@RonaldMcDonald

I see it as any other healthcare. I hold zero emotional attachment to it but I realise other people feel differently to me. I try to be kind and thoughtful toward them.

I’d rather a woman have the choice for any reason to have an abortion. She owes me no explanation, I will offer her no judgement

This is the best post on the thread! Just because some people form an attachment to a clump of cells, doesn’t mean everyone should feel the same way. Abortion is very much a personal choice and nobody has the right to enforce, guilt or mourning on any woman. You make the right decision for yourselves and keep your judgemental noses out of other women’s lives.

I broadly agree with you too OP.

I don't usually comment on threads about abortion as my feelings around it are complicated. I recognise the need for abortion. I don't feel it's a decision to be taken lightly, and the 'clump of cells' approach bothers me. I recognise that's my own beliefs, however.

Honestly, based on the definitions here, I probably don't qualify as 'pro-choice'. I live in a country where using the term 'pro-life' has negative connotations. I don't know where my views situate me (I do believe women should have a choice) but I dislike the binary discussion around pro-choice / pro-life. It is more nuanced for many and that shouldn't be trivialised by comments like 'you're not pro-choice if...'

I’m pro choice but some of the responses on posts can be hurtful so I think I know what you mean.
You read posts from women who have just found out they are pregnant and their relationship isn’t going well and people jump to tell them to abort the baby. There’s no real advice or support given in some of these posts and others can be quite mean.
I’m all for people choosing what they want to do with their own body but don’t think it’s fair to tell someone to abort their child based on one post.

@whumpthereitis

What’s wrong with being blase? If a woman finds abortion is be a straightforward medical procedure that’s only been a positive thing do her, why can’t she be blasé about that? Why does a woman have to always be maternal and sentimental in regards to pregnancy? Why is it that if a woman isn’t sufficiently reverent and shamed, then she’s cold and/or unnatural? A medical procedure can just be a medical procedure. To me abortion isn’t a big deal. I’ve had one. It wasn’t a heartbreaking decision I was wringing my hands about, and I’m not going to pretend it was in order to play lip service to anyone else’s sensibilities. Everyone else is free to have their own ideas about it, but where it becomes wrong is when they try and dictate what other people should feel or do.

Abortion has existed in all cultures throughout history. It always will exist. The choice is between legal or illegal abortion, not legal abortion and no abortion.

If an OP posts asking for advice yes,some people will say abort, or they’ll say ‘I would have in abortion in that situation’. I haven’t seen anyone being hounded and being told they have to have an abortion. I have seen plenty of posters that will try and convince a woman not to though. Some will say ‘if you’re not 100% sure don’t do it’ in reply to someone being understandably nervous in the face of making a choice, but the same advice is rarely given to someone if they’re not 100% sure about continuing a pregnancy. Trauma is always presented as an almost inevitable outcome of abortion. Except both decisions can lead to regret, and neither one can be taken back once action has been carried out.

This sums up my feelings on the subject, precisely.

@Penzinola

Abortion can be totally necessary but it's also pretty sad IMO.

Well mine wasn't at all. I was 19 and in an abusive relationship. I did not regret it at the time and felt no sadness. 20 years later I do not regret it and feel no sadness.

Right? I had a pregnancy scare when I was at school and still living with my abusive mother. I would never have brought a child into that situation.

I think some people are only ok with abortion as long as women feel really really sad and guilty about it for the rest of their lives

I recently started a thread in fact about possibly ending my marriage due to DH wanting to terminate this pregnancy and expressed that I see abortion as 'killing my baby' and the response I got was 'It's not " killing your baby". Stop being so dramatic.' how is that helpful to a woman that is clearly struggling?? I thought we were at the point where we as women were coming together to support one another, but then Mumsnet seems to be the complete opposite, people just want to tear each other down!

You have a point, OP. I suspect people are no less judgmental, narrow-minded or dogmatic now than they were in the 1960s. It’s just that social norms have shifted on certain things including abortion.
On the whole, I think it is healthier for society to have a fairly blasé view of abortion so it’s better not to dwell on feelings of sadness about it. There may be some losers along the way, but overall things are better.
It did shock me slightly, maybe twenty years ago when a BBC reporter said one piece of good news on teenage pregnancies was that more were being terminated. It wouldn’t shock me now.

Yes I agree. I read a thread the other day, The amount of women actually pushing it like there was nothing wrong with it was insane and really revolting actually.
I personally don't believe abortions should be available upto the point they are unless there are medical reasons. I do however believe in terminations as it's that woman's right but it needs to be made at the start of pregnancy.

[quote Villagewaspbyke]@Dairymilk50 women are not “selling themselves short” by not getting married. Also why should women “demand marriage”? How would that even be possible? Both people have to consent to get married.

I was also certainly “good enough to get married” and “good enough to have his baby” (as your Nan might say) but I choose not to marry. Marriage isn’t a privilege for men to bestow on women!

I’m from a culture where marriage is important too. But I happily chose to be unmarried and unashamed. I find the mn attitude that it’s some kind of higher status for women regressive.

I do think we should have a better child support system - there should be no difference in financial provision for children whether or not the parents were married. In reality there often is where the man is the higher earner sue to our system of child support not being fit for purpose.

My dds have double barrelled names. Even if I was married that would be the case. My daughters so why not my name. I have never been questioned on it and travel a lot.[/quote]
If you have double barrelled names you won't be questioned because your name is on the passport too. I was talking about men wanting to have the privilege of the children having their surname whilst unmarried to the mother of their kids. Your scenario is completely different.

I travel yearly with DS also and its a thing... I since have travelled with the birth certificate.
Well that's your perogative if you didn't want to get married at all.. its out of the question all together.

I dont think people on here suggest it easily in "less than perfect" situations.

I think they suggest it gently as a reasonable choice in bad situations.

Having a baby you didnt plan, that you don't want, that you can't afford, isn't "less than perfect". Its a shitshow, for both the mother and the child.

My issue isn't women having abortions, it's the way they're actively encouraged to by strangers on the Internet who'll forget about them by lunch time

Does it occur to you that some people here may need that encouragement? To have strangers who will forget about them support their decision? To not feel like a terrible person or failure to be in the position they are in? To feel justified in the difficult decision they are making?

As for not pro-choice for your own pregnancies, lucky you that you were never pregnant when you didn’t want to be. I hope you never are pregnant when you don’t want to be. It’s a terrible place to be,

@RampantIvy

In the early stages most people don't think of an embryo as a baby, just a bunch of cells. You are using emotive language by calling an embryo a baby.

Agree

I think some people are only ok with abortion as long as women feel really really sad and guilty about it for the rest of their lives

This. I had a termination as a young woman. It was absolutely the right choice, I had only been with (my now DH!) for 6m, we had a contraceptive failure and it would have been disastrous for us both. I dont regret it in the least, and if anything I think not viewing early pregnancy as a "baby" helped me later in life when I had 3 miscarriages.

*they have no regard for the babies whatsoever.

Abortion can be totally necessary but it's also pretty sad IMO.

You can care about the mother without being so cold and dismissive of the baby they were carrying.

Caring about the babies doesn't mean I hate women, I am one.*

@Nothanksloveimfine It's NOT A BABY. Calling something with no sentience or nerve receptors a 'baby' is disingenuous. It's only said by pro-birthers to emotionally manipulate.

The amount of women actually pushing it like there was nothing wrong with it

Watch yourself. There is nothing wrong with it.

The point being that many people who pro choice feel that an early pregnancy is a possibility, one we choose to pursue or not.

I do actually agree OP to a point

I agree that abortion should be available but I don't think it should be available after 12 weeks unless it's a TFMR

The current 24 weeks cut off is ridiculous now that babies are being born at less than that and surviving. When my twins were in NICU there were several babies and twins born at 24 weeks and just under who were thriving

I think 12 weeks is more than enough time to decide whether you want to keep a baby or not.

I am quite alarmed at how a sizable % of MNers are so blase about abortions

So you’re not really pro-choice, are you?

Women considering a termination are in a hard enough place already, without these sorts of judgemental comments added in.