To be shocked by how blasé alot of MNers are about abortion

[Nothanksloveimfine]

Yes its healthcare, yes free and safe abortion is completely necessary because the alternative doesn't bare thinking about, yes everybody has a right to choose what's best for them and yes I am pro choice (whilst being explicitly pro life with regards to my own pregnancies)

With all that said and done, I am quite alarmed at how a sizable % of MNers are so blase about abortions. Whenever a poster is talking about being pregnant with an unplanned baby and in a less than perfect situation, I see alot of posters urging her to just have a termination like its a routine stroll through the park.

I've just read a heartbreaking article which is being discussed at the minute and some of the replies on that thread are so cold. It made me cry and I'm wondering how the hell people can read that and not be impacted by it, completely steamrolling over the tragic loss of life by saying things like "that's a rare case" abortion is a good thing bla bla bla.

Does anybody else share my view or am I the odd one out?

It's like people are so determined to bang the "right to abort" drum, they have no regard for the babies whatsoever.

Abortion can be totally necessary but it's also pretty sad IMO.

You can care about the mother without being so cold and dismissive of the baby they were carrying.

Caring about the babies doesn't mean I hate women, I am one.

Yes I've name changed because I don't expect this will go down well here.

*What I meant was:

I believe every woman should have the right to choose, and I respect those choices whatever they may be.

For me personally I couldn't go through with it as I know that I (as an individual) would struggle to move past it - after coming close in the past and having to really think about it - so whilst I acknowledge that it isn't right for me, I respect the fact it is right for others and that choice should always remain.*

That’s being pro-choice, then. No caveats about your own pregnancies needed. You don’t have to be personally willing to have an abortion in order to be pro-choice. You were able to weigh up all your options and come to a decision that was right for you - to continue your pregnancy - instead of having to continue with it because you would have been arrested otherwise. We are very, very lucky that we have that choice when plenty of women don’t.

@Stravaig

Pro-life advocates don't actually have a deep reverence for life. They only care about 'babies', which they have a bizarrely romanticised view of. They don't care about the quality of life the growing child then adult will have. They don't care about the wellbeing of the children and adults already here, whose lives might be adversely affected. Nor do they care about any other species; they're human supremacists.

Every added human being on this planet brings us one heartbeat closer to the complete eradication of all life on this planet. That's the big picture. Judging by our collective decisions, most people have no reverence for life whatsoever.

I see this stereotype banded about a lot on threads like this, but the pro-life people who I know in real life don't even come close to what you're describing. The pro-life advocates I know are social workers, doctors, midwives, SEN teachers and health visitors who advocate for life "from the cradle to the grave", and believe that abortion is a human rights issue, not a religious one. They run free summer camps for disabled children to give their parents respite, volunteer as befrienders for the elderly, and spend their weekends at crisis pregnancy centres offering financial and practical support to single mothers.

I think the reason so many people feel that the majority of pro-life advocates care exclusively about the unborn without offering any support is because the media is heavily manipulated around issues of abortion. I'm not denying there are people like that, but I've never met them.

@Nothanksloveimfine

Why do people always want to talk about the people who feel nothing but relief after a termination, and give little thought to the people who do? For some people it is a life changing event that they never move past.

We can't talk about that though, god forbid anybody express regret because it's not inkeeping with the popular MN stance that termination isn't much different to having a mole removed.

But there are plenty of people who have agreed with you! Why do you keep saying 'we can't talk about this' and 'the popular MN stance'? Why can't some of us disagree with you without you casting yourself as the lone voice or reason over and over again?

@Nothanksloveimfine

Why do people always want to talk about the people who feel nothing but relief after a termination, and give little thought to the people who do? For some people it is a life changing event that they never move past.

We can't talk about that though, god forbid anybody express regret because it's not inkeeping with the popular MN stance that termination isn't much different to having a mole removed.

1. People can talk about their regret and trauma. Plenty of Posters have had threads about his on MN and their sadness and grief was largely acknowledged and sympathised with and supported. Bar a few pro lifer comments like "you should've thought of that before you killed a baby" or "good, you should feel this way so you don't do it again". Comments which of course get swiftly deleted.

1. You started the thread in a confrontational way from the start. Not only you claimed all abortions are sad, but went further accusing anyone that doesn't feel that way if being blasé,callous ,cold etc.

You can feel any which way about it, that doesn't mean women who feel differently are in any way less or wrong or somehow lacking.

true - but I can educate my daughters so that they are able to make fully informed choices

Fully informed choices on what? Abortion is bad and you will be sad forever that you killed your lovely baby?

What you say the same if it were your son or would you breath relief that he wasn't to become a teenage father?

Don’t be so naïve. Presenting it as a viable option and being “blasé” about it are very different things. You’re extremely ignorant.

[quote ldontWanna]@OchonAgusOchonOh OP started the thread saying abortion IS sad. Stated that as a fact and in a generalised way.

Slightly changed the wording only after many ,many replies .[/quote]
Yes she did, but that is not what the poster I was addressing quoted. I was referring to the text quoted by the poster I was addressing.

The problem on a lot of threads like this is people read what they think is being said, not what is actually being said. If the poster had quoted the op where she said Abortion can be totally necessary but it's also pretty sad IMO I would have agreed with their point.

I don't believe women should be guilted into thinking their choice is wrong or that they should feel a certain way about it. Equally, I think it is important to recognise that different women will feel differently.

I agree op. Some people on here are pretty disgusting about it. And they have no respect for the fact somebody might find it upsetting.

A lot of women who go through abortion do find it upsetting. Of course it’s upsetting. It’s a pretty awful thing to have to do.

But mumsnet and especially AIBU is a pretty nasty place op so if I were you, I really wouldn’t bother trying. Let’s hope these people don’t meet someone who has gone through pregnancy loss, although that’s unlikely considering that happens to 1 in 3-4 women.

Sometimes it has to be done but it is no joke and to pretend it is can only be described as incredibly disrespectful.

And no, some people don’t find it sad. Good for them. Respect others might. Having emotions about ending a life is fucking ok.

Abortion can be totally necessary but it's also pretty sad IMO.

@Nothanksloveimfine

Why do people always want to talk about the people who feel nothing but relief after a termination, and give little thought to the people who do? For some people it is a life changing event that they never move past.

We can't talk about that though, god forbid anybody express regret because it's not inkeeping with the popular MN stance that termination isn't much different to having a mole removed.

I think we're focusing on the fact that those women exist because your posts are focusing a lot on the women who feel regret and for whom it may be "a life changing event that they never move past".

Absolutely not minimising that view, and it's obviously tremendously sad if people feel like that - and wrong that anyone should lack the support needed to continue with a pregnancy if that is what they want. I wonder if you have thoughts about why that might be? It feels to me as if this is a much bigger issue than "somebody on Mumsnet told me to have an abortion".

But for many it is a welcome relief to end an unwanted pregnancy and they may even feel joy and release. We don't want to forget those women either.

YABU, it’s a lot sadder if a baby is born when someone doesn’t necessarily want it or have adequate resources to look after it. No one should feel guilt for having or wanting an abortion, end of.

@Dairymilk50 - men can want the “privilege” of their children having their surnames all they like. Unmarried women choose their childrens name - I gave my dds mine.

It’s is indeed my prerogative not to get married. I wasn’t “selling myself short” nor was I “unworthy” or marriage as per your post. I didn’t want to get married (partly because I was the higher earner).

As I said, marriage is not a privilege for men to bestow on women nor are children born to unmarried mothers any less valuable (nor is it acceptable to say they should be aborted to get back to the point of the thread).

@NotthesameNotok

I assume when you’re waxing lyrical about gestational age and the evils of abortion, that you will also include the realities of extreme premature birth and the lifelong impact that has too?

@OchonAgusOchonOh I reserve the right to quote the text where OP started to change the narrative on what she meant, thank you. I didn't want to bother quoting "IMO" because that's not the original message I meant!

@Nothanksloveimfine

Why do people always want to talk about the people who feel nothing but relief after a termination, and give little thought to the people who do? For some people it is a life changing event that they never move past.

We can't talk about that though, god forbid anybody express regret because it's not inkeeping with the popular MN stance that termination isn't much different to having a mole removed.

Presumably because we keep being told that the regretful voices are the only ones worth hearing. Challenging a narrative and saying that other experiences exist as well isn’t shutting up those that are regretful, it’s saying there is space for all voices.

The whole premise of this thread is that being blasé about abortion is wrong, and that women shouldn’t share their lived experiences or ever suggest it as a viable option. Now you want to whine about voices not being heard? Fucking LOL. No, what you’re upset about is your narrative not being dominant or considered the only one of any value.

i read that thread and the case is rare and the fact is the woman in question wanted an abortion and she got one , albeit a lot later on in term that she expected , its a bit odd she wouldnt have been able to even vaguely work out how far along she was , and iv been on lots of threads and what iv seen is women reminded they have choices , in really bad situations people do point out the pitfalls of bringing a child into a shit situation and that it wont be easy if she does

its up to other women what they do with their bodies , you worry about yours

Pro-life advocates don't actually have a deep reverence for life.

@Stravaig
Equally, a lot of the pro-choice advocates don't actually have a burning passion for women, hence why they'll slate you if you make the wrong choice.

Not saying you're wrong, but it applies to people on both 'sides' hiding behind words, whether 'life/babies' or 'women/choice'.

Don't get why people love to act like it's so black and white.

@Nothanksloveimfine

Why do people always want to talk about the people who feel nothing but relief after a termination, and give little thought to the people who do? For some people it is a life changing event that they never move past.

We can't talk about that though, god forbid anybody express regret because it's not inkeeping with the popular MN stance that termination isn't much different to having a mole removed.

What emotion do you want women to feel after an abortion?

It will always be an emotive and complex subject. But it's good to hear a variety of opinions.
It's also good that we as a society seem to be slowly moving away from what used to be the only narrative which was "I had to abort my baby but I hate myself for it, and on every abortion anniversary and every due date anniversary I whip myself with birch twigs."
If someone says their abortion was a happy day I'm not going to tell them they're not allowed to feel that way.

@Bootothegoose

true - but I can educate my daughters so that they are able to make fully informed choices

Fully informed choices on what? Abortion is bad and you will be sad forever that you killed your lovely baby?

What you say the same if it were your son or would you breath relief that he wasn't to become a teenage father?

Goodness no !

I would make sure they are clear on embryonic and fetal development

I would ensure they are in full possessions of all the facts as to what types of abortion are available, how they are performed and at what stage and how to access the service.

Of any of my daughters had an unwanted pregnancy I would fully support them if they wanted to end that pregnancy likewise if they chose to continue I would support them

@Bpickle1

YABU, it’s a lot sadder if a baby is born when someone doesn’t necessarily want it or have adequate resources to look after it. No one should feel guilt for having or wanting an abortion, end of.

As someone who was the baby in that situation why do you think it is better for me to have never been born rather than be a little sad

How about this OP:
Some women feel regret and sadness because they have had an abortion.
Other women do not, they feel relieved and feel no sadness at all.
No one should make anyone feel that they should have an abortion if they don't want to.
No one should make anyone feel sad or guilty because they had one.
Being pro choice means being respectful of other women's choices and accepting that they have the right to make them without passing judgement upon them.

[quote SemperIdem]@NotthesameNotok

I assume when you’re waxing lyrical about gestational age and the evils of abortion, that you will also include the realities of extreme premature birth and the lifelong impact that has too?[/quote]
Where did I say anything about the ‘evils of abortion’ ????

I didn’t

Because I don’t consider it evil

It’s actually disgusting you are basically putting words in my mouth

Is it really so terrifying to you all that someone can be pro choice and still have some reservations about the current system and lack of information available to women going through the procedure ?

I’m not anti abortion and not once have I said it was evil or said anything negative at all about it