To be shocked by how blasé alot of MNers are about abortion

[Nothanksloveimfine]

Yes its healthcare, yes free and safe abortion is completely necessary because the alternative doesn't bare thinking about, yes everybody has a right to choose what's best for them and yes I am pro choice (whilst being explicitly pro life with regards to my own pregnancies)

With all that said and done, I am quite alarmed at how a sizable % of MNers are so blase about abortions. Whenever a poster is talking about being pregnant with an unplanned baby and in a less than perfect situation, I see alot of posters urging her to just have a termination like its a routine stroll through the park.

I've just read a heartbreaking article which is being discussed at the minute and some of the replies on that thread are so cold. It made me cry and I'm wondering how the hell people can read that and not be impacted by it, completely steamrolling over the tragic loss of life by saying things like "that's a rare case" abortion is a good thing bla bla bla.

Does anybody else share my view or am I the odd one out?

It's like people are so determined to bang the "right to abort" drum, they have no regard for the babies whatsoever.

Abortion can be totally necessary but it's also pretty sad IMO.

You can care about the mother without being so cold and dismissive of the baby they were carrying.

Caring about the babies doesn't mean I hate women, I am one.

Yes I've name changed because I don't expect this will go down well here.

@TurningUpMyStereotype

I don't really care whether you or anyone else thinks its disgusting. It's not a big deal to me. I don't go around telling people not to feel sad or regretful about their abortions and I've got every right to make gross jokes about mine if I want.

So you don’t care about upsetting any women who may have overheard your ‘joke’?

Why should she? It’s her experience, she gets to speak on it how she wants.

Would you say that people that are upset about an abortion shouldn’t say so in case they offend someone that isn’t? Or is the negative view the only one is worthy of being respected?

I’m an adult. I understand that sometimes people may say something that upsets me. It’s up to me to cope with that myself, it’s not for me to demand anyone else tailor their speech in accordance with my sensitivities.

Obviously there is a massive difference and pro choice is abortion should be allowed no matter what? So if someone has booked a holiday and then find out their pregnant and need not to be then they should be able to have an abortion because it’s their body and they can do what they like” That’s just one ridiculous example I can think of.

For me I do whole heartedly believe we have the right to choose

The rest of your posts means this is a total lie.

Re the rest of the thread - gotta love those who are pro-choice as long as the woman pays her dues by feeling like she's committed a terrible sin for the rest of her life. Thumbs up, guys.

A thread I was in recently the op stated that she was in her 30s and had fertility issues yet people were telling her to get an abortion as her circumstances weren’t ideal.

The fact that this could be the one and only time this woman could get pregnant I just thought the posters either didn’t care about not being able to have children or didn’t care enough to read the ops posts and think the answer to any circumstance where a woman isn’t married with a home of their own, a good income and savings is to get an abortion and wait till you are in that position.

I have had an abortion. I have also had several miscarriages.

I remember the abortion. So what? I also remember the playhouse in my P1 classroom. It was the right choice for me, I availed myself of it with gratitude, and I have no regrets. I think of it very occasionally, in a parallel-universe sort of way, but it's no more than a vague thought.

The actual studies show that the overwhelming majority of women recover from a termination perfectly well both mentally and physically and have no regrets.

@Womeninblack

Obviously there is a massive difference and pro choice is abortion should be allowed no matter what? So if someone has booked a holiday and then find out their pregnant and need not to be then they should be able to have an abortion because it’s their body and they can do what they like” That’s just one ridiculous example I can think of.

No, the woman considering an abortion so she can have a drink on holiday should be made to have the baby. I bet she'd be a great mum.

It might not be a big deal to some mumsnetters, who I don't think represent the majority of the popularity strangely as I'm yet to come across the sort of tone here - used in person - but it is a big deal to some people. Possibly not at the time but later on down the line.

You don't think that might because women fear the nasty judgy responses that have been shown on this thread?
You don't think that maybe women just don't talk to you about it because of your narrow views?

I'll happily tell anyone that I had a termination thirty three years ago - though obviously I dint because I didn't my want to upset their sensibilities. I don't think it was "no big deal". I was devastated to be pregnant at 21, I was so stressed and worried, I had daily sickness, had to be off work with no pay, lots of appointments (one woman told me to "think about all the women who can't have children" - why?). I was worried about the anesthetic. I was very relieved when it was done. The sickness and sore leaking boobs stopped at once.

Of course I would not "forget" it. But it doesn't "live with me". It's just a thing I did. And in terms of the actual medical procedure I can honestly say that having my wisdom teeth out was worse.

I don't feel any regret or sadness over it. I don't think about what "might have been".

@TurningUpMyStereotype

I don't really care whether you or anyone else thinks its disgusting. It's not a big deal to me. I don't go around telling people not to feel sad or regretful about their abortions and I've got every right to make gross jokes about mine if I want.

So you don’t care about upsetting any women who may have overheard your ‘joke’?

No I don’t. women who want to talk openly about the regret or sadness or trauma they felt about theirs don’t stop and think about whether they’re guilt tripping or judging people like me, who don’t feel those things. And they shouldn’t. Everyone is entitled to voice their feelings honestly and should accept others feel differently.

No one aborts at the stage a foetus will survive, unless it's a medical condition. No one

And yet it's been said on MN that women should be able to, even where no medical condition exists, so I sometimes wonder if the phrase "As early as possible and as late as necessary" is intended to encompass even this?

@Nothanksloveimfine

I don't really care whether you or anyone else thinks its disgusting. It's not a big deal to me. I don't go around telling people not to feel sad or regretful about their abortions and I've got every right to make gross jokes about mine if I want.

Yeah it's totally fine to make gross jokes, regardless of who it upsets, so long as you get your giggle.

I bet you're giggling alone though, and anybody who does laugh along with you will only be doing so out of awkwardness. I don't know one person IRL who would hear that and find it funny. You're a bit twisted really.

🤷🏻‍♀️ And I know plenty who would laugh.

Someone being upset isn’t always the most important consideration. It’s not the altar upon which we sacrifice everything else. Disliking what may say doesn’t mean they don’t have the right to say it, or that they shouldn’t. Your upset is your own to deal with.

@Womeninblack

Obviously there is a massive difference and pro choice is abortion should be allowed no matter what? So if someone has booked a holiday and then find out their pregnant and need not to be then they should be able to have an abortion because it’s their body and they can do what they like” That’s just one ridiculous example I can think of.

Yes.

Next ridiculous hypothetical situation?

Whataboutery seems to be catching on this thread.

However if I was coerced into an abortion, hadn't thought it through or did it for the wrong reasons and regretted it, then I would feel sad for me too.

I'd feel sad if i continued with a pregnancy for the wrong reasons too, or because others thought I should jump through millions of hoops and justify my concerns. Basically being coerced into either is sad, hence choice being important. Sure some regret abortion just as some deepy regret and hate having a child.

It’s an option

Why shouldn’t it be mentioned or discussed it’s not a dirty secret that women have terminations or anything to be ashamed or or feel guilty over

And op you are not pro choice stop being so disingenuous

@Robinni

some abort at very advanced stages of pregnancy, as far as that if the child were born prematurely it may have a chance to survive. I don’t think the ethical considerations there are on the same page as going for a root canal.

about page 18 i posted the stats for UK. It is very very very rare indeed that it goes past 20 weeks. Late term abortions are not done at a whim, and certainly nobody is allowed to skip into a clinic at 38 weeks and say "oh no, changed my mind, out with it".

The comparisons with root canal (or other medical procedures) are very relevant: you have more chance of dying from a root canal than from having an abortion (88% are within the first 12 weeks)

Back to semantics though. Nobody posts on MN "go and get an abortion right now, do it, that is the only way" and even if they did it is only their opinion (it would be a totally shit thing to post). Everything we write is opinion, that is all. You can only give your own opinion - even if it is utter bollocks, it is still your opinion. Unless you quote someone else and make it obvious you do so. That is the semantics of posting on an internet forum.

@TurningUpMyStereotype

I don’t care that to other people it’s a life or a potential life, my body I can do what I want.

They wouldn’t be involved in raising any unwanted child that I would have had would they?

Me being blasé, having abortions etc has no impact on their life. End of. So they have no say and their judgements are meaningless and of no consequence. Soz!

@GregBrawlsInDogJail

I'm often shocked about how blasé many MNers are about bringing a baby into bad, unstable circumstances, with men they barely know or know to be awful, when it will plainly have negative consequences for both them and the DC they have already, which has far more significant and far -reaching consequences than the vast majority of terminations.

I think far too many women simply knee-jerk Abortions Are Bad And Wrong and since I'm not a Bad Person, I can't have an Abortion.

Christ, yes. This country- many countries really- would be in a much better place if some women put half as much thought into having babies as others did into having terminations.

@Womeninblack

Obviously there is a massive difference and pro choice is abortion should be allowed no matter what? So if someone has booked a holiday and then find out their pregnant and need not to be then they should be able to have an abortion because it’s their body and they can do what they like” That’s just one ridiculous example I can think of.

Yes. They should have that right. Why would me thinking they shouldn’t have any bearing on their freedom to do it?

Personally I can’t imagine thinking that what Mrs X down the road does in regards to her own body has absolutely anything to do with me, or that my opinion on it should count for anything. The only uterus I have any say over is my own.

No OP, you are not pro-choice.

I've had an abortion, and I've taken the morning after pill, and I've taken the contraceptive pill. I don't feel bad about any of them.

Having a baby is a massive decision, a life changer. Having an abortion isn't. It's keeping the status quo.

I think that ideally every woman should actively choose to have a baby (or at least actively choose to take the risk). In every other circumstance, abortion is just keeping life the same as it was before - it really isn't a massive decision unless you want to make it one.

As early as possible, as late as necessary. Always.

@VanGoghsDog I used that as an example because I actually read on another pro choice post that this could/should be one of the reasons. Isn’t it you can use any reason to abort? Isn’t it??

@Womeninblack

“Obviously there is a massive difference and pro choice is abortion should be allowed no matter what? So if someone has booked a holiday and then find out their pregnant and need not to be then they should be able to have an abortion because it’s their body and they can do what they like” That’s just one ridiculous example I can think of.”

What’s your point?

A woman in that situation can abort if she chooses to.
A woman can abort for any reason she chooses

I honestly can't believe either how blase posters are abs how disposable these pregnancies see to be.

I find it heartbreaking and very worrying just how de rigeur abortion seems to have become. So sad.

@Womeninblack

Obviously there is a massive difference and pro choice is abortion should be allowed no matter what? So if someone has booked a holiday and then find out their pregnant and need not to be then they should be able to have an abortion because it’s their body and they can do what they like” That’s just one ridiculous example I can think of.

Yes

@Puzzledandpissedoff

No one aborts at the stage a foetus will survive, unless it's a medical condition. No one

And yet it's been said on MN that women should be able to, even where no medical condition exists, so I sometimes wonder if the phrase "As early as possible and as late as necessary" is intended to encompass even this?

But legally in this country you can't above 24 weeks. Yes around 60% of babies born at the very upper limit 'survive', albeit the stats don't state with what quality of life or how long for, but 2 weeks before that survival drops to 10% and then down to 0% in a matter of days. Debatably the limit could be decreased by 2 weeks, but what difference does it really make. We aren't talking months here, and many women have an abortion way before that.

@TalkingCat the rate of prem survival is increasing at 22-23 weeks with active treatment there is a 28-55% survival rate, based on a US study that came out at the beginning of this year.
scopeblog.stanford.edu/2022/02/08/premature-babies-survival-rate-is-climbing-study-says/

The term limit in the U.K. was 28 wks until 1990 when they reduced it to 24 wks for the majority. Bearing in mind latest data, they probably need to reduce it again.

I am pro-choice but I do think the ethics and potential negative consequences need to be considered as heavily as the very valid and important reasons for going ahead.