To be shocked by how blasé alot of MNers are about abortion

[Nothanksloveimfine]

Yes its healthcare, yes free and safe abortion is completely necessary because the alternative doesn't bare thinking about, yes everybody has a right to choose what's best for them and yes I am pro choice (whilst being explicitly pro life with regards to my own pregnancies)

With all that said and done, I am quite alarmed at how a sizable % of MNers are so blase about abortions. Whenever a poster is talking about being pregnant with an unplanned baby and in a less than perfect situation, I see alot of posters urging her to just have a termination like its a routine stroll through the park.

I've just read a heartbreaking article which is being discussed at the minute and some of the replies on that thread are so cold. It made me cry and I'm wondering how the hell people can read that and not be impacted by it, completely steamrolling over the tragic loss of life by saying things like "that's a rare case" abortion is a good thing bla bla bla.

Does anybody else share my view or am I the odd one out?

It's like people are so determined to bang the "right to abort" drum, they have no regard for the babies whatsoever.

Abortion can be totally necessary but it's also pretty sad IMO.

You can care about the mother without being so cold and dismissive of the baby they were carrying.

Caring about the babies doesn't mean I hate women, I am one.

Yes I've name changed because I don't expect this will go down well here.

@Robinni

To reply re. my previous post, not saying people got their just desserts. The context would be that these women got pregnant in the 70s/80s. Some were shamed as they weren’t married and felt obligated to go ahead with it, some had brief relationships that resulted in pregnancy. The attitude was abortion would solve it all and it was taken as a given that pregnancy would be easy later, which they believed because they were young and naive.

My point is they were unsupported and weren’t properly counselled. And I still feel i that support and proper counselling for women is severely lacking. It’s a huge decision once there is a viable pregnancy, one you have to live with for the rest of your life, that can have negative health consequences.

It isn’t going to the dentist.

How come you are able to voice all the feelings and experiences of those women in the 1970s who had abortions? Do you know that you had to have two medical consultations to have an abortion in the 1970s where things were discussed? Why are you saying they were not counselled? You are also diminishing a woman's own character - is she not competent on her own to say " this pregnancy is not for me"?

I could not agree more with you @shrodingersvaccine

I suppose it’s because the consequences of recommending a termination, are less than the consequences of encouraging a poster to continue a pregnancy - a minimum of 18 years of life changing responsibility in less than ideal circumstances.

@shrodingersvaccine

Sorry to be pedantic but it’s Schrodinger’s
Not shrodingers

It’s a fine line; would it have been worse for them to go ahead with a pregnancy earlier where they had supportive partners and sufficient financial means. Or face the regret and health consequences.

You really can’t extrapolate the experience of a small number of your friends as being reflective of the experience of millions of other women.

Who knows if it would have been better or worse for them? No one does. We shouldn’t be expected to make choices, or be prevented from making choices, on the basis of potential future regret. We can only make choices about the situations were actually in, in the absence of crystal balls. The freedom to make choices for ourselves is also the freedom to make choices that later on may be sources of regret. We have the right to make those choices and we’re the ones who have to, for better or worse, live with them. As such they’re for us to make, no one else.

@RampantIvy

In the early stages most people don't think of an embryo as a baby, just a bunch of cells. You are using emotive language by calling an embryo a baby.

OP you are looking at your 5 month old baby and are relating him to something completely different. It’s not a baby that most people abort. At no time in your posts have you used anything other than the term baby.

I think the attitude that other people think it’s very sad is the reason most people feel so much shame about making that decision.

Lots of people believe an early pregnancy is a bundle of cells with no consciousness and non-receptive to pain. So why would they see it as sad?

I find your posts contradictory and wierd. You are clearly not pro choice, and you do others who are a disservice by putting yourself into that category.

The thing is, protection of women's bodily autonomy must be absolute. Regardless of how sad it might make some people.

Yes, this is it. Outside of protection of women's bodily autonomy, it doesn't actually matter a shite if people are 'blasé' about abortion or whether they are really upset about getting one.

Abortion is a choice but one which many women find extremely difficult and should be treated sensitively

If it was classed as a normal medical procedure and there wasn't all the angst surrounding it, maybe lots of women wouldnt find it difficult. Let's be honest raising a child to 18 and beyond is a lot more difficult.

I had a termination and I just knew it was not a good idea to have that baby at that time. I had no angst about it, i dont miss it. The procedure was horrible and that's my abiding memory of the whole thing.
Should I be castigated cos I didnt particularly feel bad?

And even if abortion was banned, it would still happen. Surely its better to have a fuss free termination than have to go find a back street one or get dodgy tablets off the internet.

And for anyone who thinks that all the babies should be born, who will look after them? Theres already far too many kids in care, we already know the care system gives worse outcomes. And who will pay for all the extra care homes. And it's worse still for the disabled babies.

I’m blasé about it, yes.

As are lots of women I know.

And the problem with that is….??

@SevenWaystoLeave

*Famous last words. I hope you're right, but as the men's in women's spaces, women thrown out rape survivor's groups in Bristol UK, and women silence and threatened with rape and death prove, there is no longer such a thing as inalienable rights. Not any more. How many of us women on this thread ever thought we would see the day were we were told we had to have men in our toilets and if we complained we were told to shut up?

No rights can ever be taken for granted. Not anymore. Eternal vigilance is the price for these 'rights' that can be taken away at any time depending on the current fad or mood. Please don't assume the UK won't have abortion rights to stripped down, too. Nothing can be taken for granted, not anymore.*

FFS, this has nothing to do with trans issues, this is just you dragging your pet hate into the thread at every opportunity.

@SevenWaystoLeave FFS you must have me confused with someone else, I rarely talk about trans issues. My point is valid in that women are losing rights left, right and centre. Nothing is guaranteed anymore. Sorry if me pointing out that fact bothers you, FFS. In addition, having AS'ed you, it's obvious that trans is your pet agenda, so maybe stop deflecting yourself onto me.

@DrSbaitso

Sadly I know several women of my mothers generation who all had abortions in their 20s, some of them multiple times because they didn’t have the perfect circumstances. They all wept and wailed in their 40s when they couldn’t get pregnant

Many women - most? - will find it harder to conceive in their 40s than in their 20s. If they were as ignorant about that reality of their bodies as you appear to be, then better education might have prevented the unwanted pregnancies.

Completely agree - at the time these abortions took place education was substandard, contraception was not as readily available, unmarried mothers were not supported etc etc.

I would hope now that women are more likely to have adequate contraception to prevent unwanted pregnancies, and have proper support to understand an abortion should not be treated in a blasé manner.

That way they can make an informed, supported choice and not end up with the negative outcomes previous generations have faced.

The experiences I have seen with these women are the only first hand accounts I have of abortion. I haven’t known anyone of my generation to have one - they were all on the pill, in one friend it failed (twice) and she kept both babies.

@Robinni what era do you think the poster is talking about ?

I agree with the Op. I’ve had an abortion, an ectopic and a pregnancy.

One thing I’ve realised is that life is precious and conception is a lottery. It dies women no good to downplay this.

I totally agree that it’s a woman’s right to chose and that abortion can be a valid chose. But the decision is influenced by other people and society in general. I would hate for single mothers to lose state help because abortion is an “easy” alternative.

[quote shrodingersvaccine]@Organictangerine

'I don't think we shall quarrel about a word - the subject of our inquiry is too important for that'[/quote]
Sorry 🤦🏼‍♀️

@LuckySantangelo35

I’m blasé about it, yes.

As are lots of women I know.

And the problem with that is….??

Because to someone people it’s a life or potential life presumably. I’m sure you realise that.

Also because many women that get pregnant, neither her or her partner has used contraception. That’s irresponsible and there will always be judgement from people if you’ve acted irresponsibly. That doesn’t mean abortion shouldn’t be available but the blasé attitude to contraception and abortion bothers some people. You don’t have to care and they don’t have to stop judging.

@Blogblogblogblog It's precisely such cold responses like that which make it impossible to properly support women who have had or are considering an abortion.

@Nothanksloveimfine

A few weeks later I went to an event with a friend, walked in and it was empty, and I joked it was "deader than my aborted foetus" so yes, I am blase about it in real life too.

Sorry but thats just disgusting.

No it’s not. She’s allowed to discuss her experience in any way she wants. She doesn’t need to refer to it in solemn, reverential tones because it better suits your sensitivities.

Women are allowed an experience that isn’t a negative, traumatizing one. They’re even allowed to express a positive, jubilant one. Negative experiences are not the only ones that have a right to a forum.

I wouldn’t judge a woman for sharing an experience she regretted, or try and deny her right to voice her lived experience, so why should the opposite one be denied? I doubt you’d advocate for women who love having children to never mention it because some women don’t.

@Oblomov22

I find your posts contradictory and wierd. You are clearly not pro choice, and you do others who are a disservice by putting yourself into that category.

Then you're clearly not reading them properly, however I feel the same about your post.

Being pro life means you want abortion to be banned and are completely against somebody having one, without exception.

I do not want abortion banned. I respect a woman right to choose.

What I am against is the way people are so quick to tell somebody to get one, even when that person has expressed zero inclination to do so.

I also take a dim view of comments like this

A few weeks later I went to an event with a friend, walked in and it was empty, and I joked it was "deader than my aborted foetus" so yes, I am blase about it in real life too.

..Because not only are they upsetting for people who have suffered MC and infertility, that type of inflammatory talk is also offensive to women who have had terminations under duress or that they regret.

In short if abortion is right for you then power to you, just don't try and force your ideals on other people like the pro life people you all hate so much

And try not to be an inflammatory arse about it.

You're not 'pro-life' for yourself. You haven't moved to a country or place where there is absolutely no access to abortion, you aren't living under a government that could see you imprisoned for having a miscarriage on suspicion it was induced, if you had the misfortune to have retained products or a pregnancy threatening your life you would be able to seek safe treatment for that to mean you were still around for your other children.
You are pro-choice (apparently) and have exercised that choice to choose what is best for you and your family that aligns with your values and your view on the world. 'Pro-choice' for them, 'pro-life' for me makes no sense whatsoever. It underestimates what no choice/pro-life actually is and sets you apart from people making different choices from you. Abortion is not split between those who choose it and those who don't, it's split between those who have access if needed/wanted and those who don't.
It's a bit sickening that you equate your personal choice to women in a position that have none.

This post smacks of, You can have your rights but you’ve got to feel really bad about it. Not an uncommon theme in being a woman.