To be shocked by how blasé alot of MNers are about abortion

[Nothanksloveimfine]

Yes its healthcare, yes free and safe abortion is completely necessary because the alternative doesn't bare thinking about, yes everybody has a right to choose what's best for them and yes I am pro choice (whilst being explicitly pro life with regards to my own pregnancies)

With all that said and done, I am quite alarmed at how a sizable % of MNers are so blase about abortions. Whenever a poster is talking about being pregnant with an unplanned baby and in a less than perfect situation, I see alot of posters urging her to just have a termination like its a routine stroll through the park.

I've just read a heartbreaking article which is being discussed at the minute and some of the replies on that thread are so cold. It made me cry and I'm wondering how the hell people can read that and not be impacted by it, completely steamrolling over the tragic loss of life by saying things like "that's a rare case" abortion is a good thing bla bla bla.

Does anybody else share my view or am I the odd one out?

It's like people are so determined to bang the "right to abort" drum, they have no regard for the babies whatsoever.

Abortion can be totally necessary but it's also pretty sad IMO.

You can care about the mother without being so cold and dismissive of the baby they were carrying.

Caring about the babies doesn't mean I hate women, I am one.

Yes I've name changed because I don't expect this will go down well here.

There was a thread recently with a woman being told by many posters that she had too many children. She was pregnant again and very happy but was asking advice on something else. Lots of judgement from many posters and one poster told her that ‘that’s what abortions are for’. Absolutely disgusting. This woman was happy to be pregnant, could support them and was asking advice about something else.

@Nothanksloveimfine

You don’t sound remotely pro-choice to me

Also as others have said, don’t know why you keep saying baby. I think you mean embryo or foetus, a collection of cells which could not survive independent of the mother. That is not a baby.

I don't think it's coldness OP. I think it's an unvarnished pragmatism born out of decades of exhausted experience of how hard life can really be, and the knowledge that we only have the one life.

I don't think any woman would want to have an abortion - they just want to not be pregnant

I wish there weren't any unwanted pregnancies (maybe a button that you could press - with a security code known only to you - to turn your ability to conceive on - stop periods at the same time because they suck too) but as there always will be unwanted pregnancies there needs to be a safe way to end those pregnancies,

@Ijustreallywantacat

I have stated several times that I disagree with that just as much. It is also imposing your own perspective on a situation.

But what is the massive difference between ‘If I was in your shoes I would terminate.’ and ‘the best thing to do is to terminate.’?

They’re the same opinion! They’re advising the same thing! I don’t understand that at all.

All I’m hearing from you and the OP is that you are in theory ‘pro-choice’ but you want to micromanage and police the language around it and make sure everyone is sad and guilty about it. It should be allowed, sure, but don’t mention it!

Most confused.

Exactly. Btw you can’t say that ‘some people regretting’ means it’s bad. A lot of regret, shame guilt etc come from people like the OP.

There are people who also feel regret once they’ve given birth.

You can’t argue either way, it depends on the person. If they feel sooo strongly then again - why are they on an online forum anyway?

@RoseLimeade

You have to remember that a lot of posters have been in the position that the OP will end up in if they proceed with having a baby in a terrible situation. They know how it ends up, without romanticising it. They have seen the damage caused to their kids from having an absent or uninvolved or abusive father. They know how hard it is to make ends meet and the exhaustion of being a single parent. They don't sugar coat it.

Frankly, to get an abortion you're assessed by a qualified practitioner and talk through the options with them. You're very naive if you think that a few posts on an advice forum will goad someone into terminating a pregnancy when it isn't the right choice for them.

Trust women. They/we are adults FFS. They're capable of making the right choice for themselves. Abortion is sometimes difficult, sometimes straightforward and easy. The idea that every abortion is a terribly upsetting traumatic experience is a myth perpetuated by anti-choice individuals to make it seem like an awful thing. Having rights over your body is never an awful thing.

Most women are capable of making the best choice for themselves. However, many women and girls are pushed into a decision by their partner/parents/friends/communities that is not the best choice for them. Some of those women are pushed into continuing with a pregnancy when an abortion would be the best choice for them. Some are pushed into having an abortion when continuing with the pregnancy would be the best choice for them.

Being pro-choice is about supporting women and girls to make the choice that is best for them, even if it is not the choice we ourselves would make in those circumstances and even if we think it is the wrong choice for them..

So you came to an anonymous forum asking for advice, got it, choose not to take a particular piece of advice and are happy with that choice?

I was NOT asking for advice on the pregnancy, at no point did I ask anybody what they thought I should do. The advice I wanted was regarding the home we shared, as we were unmarried and on a joint tenancy agreement. I was also looking for a handhold as I processed the infidelity. Despite not ever asking for advice about the pregnancy it didn't stop people telling me they think I should terminate so I have no ties to him etc.

By the end of the thread I was second guessing my decision to keep the baby, which I wasn't before I posted.

I had a consultation with Marie Stopes and one session of counselling, I was surprised to realise that the supposed unbiased counsellor was very much swaying me toward abortion aswell

What you regard as cold advice may just be common sense and the right answer for that person. Sometimes it's better to hear advice unclouded with emotion.

I,m more sad about women being forced to carry an unwanted child to term, to be disadvantaged economically because of that, being forced to raise a child they didn't want and to be punished for being a single parent by society. That saddens me a hell of a lot more than the loss of some cells, because that's what it is if it is offered early enough.

it’s only in your opinion that your aborted baby was ‘a collection of cells’ whilst your wanted children weren’t.

This is such a weird take tbh.

I've never had an abortion, thankfully I have never been in the position to need one. I was fortunate that I didn't get pregnant until I wanted to.

But my son as an embryo very much was a collection of cells rather than a baby. I knew that at the time! That collection of cells was incredibly important and meaningful to me, and I felt deep love. But it was still a collection of cells. That later grew into being a baby.

Even while pregnant I was fully aware that while I had meaning attached to those cells, there was no intrinsic meaning attached to them. It all depends on the feelings and views of the person carrying those cells.

I've always been pro choice, but never moreso than during pregnancy and as a parent, when the reality actually hit first hand about what being pregnant is like, what birth puts your body through, what it's like to have a newborn and so forth. I always was vocally pro choice throughout my life but after getting pregnant and becoming a parent I now donate to the Abortion Support Network.

@FlemCandango this with bells on.
Look at the huge incline of families living below the poverty line, the alarming increase in domestic violence, child abuse, child deaths since the start of the pandemic. I’d say bringing an unwanted baby into a unstable, potentially dangerous situation is way more tragic than the alternative.
That’s not me saying DCs who live in underprivileged households don’t deserve to live before anyone twists my words, what I am saying is that the choice to avoid that situation is one that should always be available to every single woman who may find herself in that position, no question about it.
There’s absolutely no doubt in my mind what I would do if I happened to find myself pregnant right now. As a single mum of 3, working a shitty job with unsociable hours, I’m just about making ends meet. Bringing another child into my current situation would be tragic for that child and my existing children.

People who come on to Mumsnet to talk about their options are explicitly asking for input from the people who comment on their posts.

Nobody is complaining about that if someone specifically asks in the pregnancy choices section. However, someone is pregnant. She asks for relationship advice and is told it's better to terminate a wanted pregnancy. The OP isn't asking for whether to abort or not, yet people take it upon themselves.

You may not see it that way (ooh nobody decides based on Mumsnet) but it is a bit much. To suggest to someone who didn't ask, that the responsible thing would be to terminate. Imagine if they have little or no real support and this is their only perspective?

One again, if somebody asks, of course its ok. But it's regularly suggested when not asked for, or when posters don't deem someone worthy of Bearing a child (don't have their ducks in a row🙄)

I had a consultation with Marie Stopes and one session of counselling, I was surprised to realise that the supposed unbiased counsellor was very much swaying me toward abortion aswell confused

Then you need to make a complaint about that incident if it happened.

To be fair nobody here know what went on in that session, if you were leaning more towards an abortion it's natural for the counsellor to follow your lead and reflect what you're saying and explore that more. But if you were genuinely on the fence and they only focused on the pros of an abortion then you should give that feedback. It's not too late and the vast majority of counsellors want to know when they get it wrong so that they can reflect for future clients.

I had a consultation with Marie Stopes and one session of counselling, I was surprised to realise that the supposed unbiased counsellor was very much swaying me toward abortion aswell

Perhaps because she could see something as a detached person that you couldn't.

@StrongCoffeAvalanche agree with every word you have said

I read the thread and felt exactly the same way about the comments. Especially considering the age of the baby that died.

Totally agree @OchonAgusOchonOh

Being forced into either decision is wrong.

Agree with you, OP. I am pro choice, but it is still ending a life and that should never be done or suggested casually.

I have to agree. I’m sure most ops know they have abortion as a choice without it being repeatedly advised or suggested.
I have a couple of friends who had abortions in their 20s and are still traumatised now.
I feel it is said quite flippantly, when it is such a physical and mental challenge to get through. I find it especially annoying when the op obviously wants to keep her baby but is constantly told to abort

To add on to my last post, I absolutely believe that there are women who would terminate based on strangers on the Internet telling her she would be mad / stupid not to.

Women in early pregnancy are emotionally vulnerable, take into consideration that not all have a solid support network offline one could very easily end up having a termination they later regret because the strangers comments got to their head.

I'm glad that in the end I made the right choice for me, and I'm glad that the people on here who are at peace with their terminations are indeed at peace with them - because how horrible it must be to have a termination you later regret, because a bunch of strangers tell you it's for the best.

Nobody should be trying to sway anybody in favour of abortion, especially if they're not going to support that person before during and after the fact.

If you think that makes me pro life then I don't know what to tell you.

I agree with you OP, some people think pro-choice means telling other women they should abort because they judge their circumstances - it doesn’t.

Life is not black and white. You can be pro choice and pro life too. I also find it sad how many people view abortion these days. I'm with you OP!

Nobody should be trying to sway anybody in favour of abortion, especially if they're not going to support that person before during and after the fact.

But why though? If people come on the internet asking what would you do? People are going to tell them what they'/d do in this situation. I do however agree it's inappropriate when posters have not mentioned wanting to terminate and are asking for advice about something else and people start suggesting termination.

Honestly, the embryo/fetus can either be a baby or a clump of cells, dependent on the eye of the beholder. The importance/emotional significance placed on it is individual, so yes it’s a ‘baby’ if a woman wants it because that’s her emotional response to it. Simultaneously, it’s also a clump of cells to a woman that doesn’t. Neither are wrong, both are using terms that reflect the emotional value placed on it.

I personally don’t have a problem with acknowledging that a fetus is alive. It’s perfectly possible to believe that and still wholeheartedly believe in the right to abortion, and even to have one. I’m one of those weird people that likes to watch whatever is happening to me in a medical sense. In much the same way I watched an operation I was having under local anaesthetic, I chose to see my ultrasound before I aborted. It wasn’t an emotional event for me before, during or after that. It would be for someone else and that’s fine, but my response was fine too.

Imo what a fetus is or isn’t is frankly irrelevant when the reality is that women will have abortions regardless. You can place all the value in the world you want on a fetus and women will still have abortions if they deem it necessary for themselves.

I share exactly the same sentiments in real life as I do on here when the topic arises. It’s probably cultural because I wasn’t raised in the British way of diplomacy that some expect 🤷🏻‍♀️ There’s nothing with being honest and direct in regards to your own lived experience.

@Nothanksloveimfine

To add on to my last post, I absolutely believe that there are women who would terminate based on strangers on the Internet telling her she would be mad / stupid not to.

Women in early pregnancy are emotionally vulnerable, take into consideration that not all have a solid support network offline one could very easily end up having a termination they later regret because the strangers comments got to their head.

I'm glad that in the end I made the right choice for me, and I'm glad that the people on here who are at peace with their terminations are indeed at peace with them - because how horrible it must be to have a termination you later regret, because a bunch of strangers tell you it's for the best.

Nobody should be trying to sway anybody in favour of abortion, especially if they're not going to support that person before during and after the fact.

If you think that makes me pro life then I don't know what to tell you.

Its also horrible to have a child that you regret. Even worse, because you’ll be stuck with it for 18+ years.

Nobody can guarantee zero regrets. Every single person around a woman could say ‘do what you want’, woman could choose seemingly ‘herself’ and still be unhappy with her choice.