To be shocked by how blasé alot of MNers are about abortion

[Nothanksloveimfine]

Yes its healthcare, yes free and safe abortion is completely necessary because the alternative doesn't bare thinking about, yes everybody has a right to choose what's best for them and yes I am pro choice (whilst being explicitly pro life with regards to my own pregnancies)

With all that said and done, I am quite alarmed at how a sizable % of MNers are so blase about abortions. Whenever a poster is talking about being pregnant with an unplanned baby and in a less than perfect situation, I see alot of posters urging her to just have a termination like its a routine stroll through the park.

I've just read a heartbreaking article which is being discussed at the minute and some of the replies on that thread are so cold. It made me cry and I'm wondering how the hell people can read that and not be impacted by it, completely steamrolling over the tragic loss of life by saying things like "that's a rare case" abortion is a good thing bla bla bla.

Does anybody else share my view or am I the odd one out?

It's like people are so determined to bang the "right to abort" drum, they have no regard for the babies whatsoever.

Abortion can be totally necessary but it's also pretty sad IMO.

You can care about the mother without being so cold and dismissive of the baby they were carrying.

Caring about the babies doesn't mean I hate women, I am one.

Yes I've name changed because I don't expect this will go down well here.

*healthcare

If nobody came into the threads you talk about, saying that abortion is a perfectly valid choice for an unwanted pregnancy, (even if you feel it's cold) then all the threads would be full of people assuming the woman will just go ahead with the pregnancy, and telling her that having the baby is the right thing to do and everything will work out just fine. Even if that's not the right thing for her.

How is that any better than some people pointing out that aborting the foetus is a valid option available to that woman? Why aren't you bothered about emotive language being used to influence women to continue a pregnancy? A bit of balance is a good thing and i suspect you are skimming over the posts you agree with and focusing on the ones you don't, leading you to the conclusion that there are hordes of women on mn determined to tell women to abort when there isn't.

*@PinkSyCo I've been through 3 miscarriages so I can empathise with how your daughter is feeling. To me every baby lost was never just a bunch of cells, they were a baby that I was planning a future with. I hope your daughter is ok, she will get through it with time but it is an awful thing to go through. I'm currently now 17 week's pregnant and this baby also never started out as just a bunch of cells. Sending love x

So sorry for your losses. I’m lucky in that I have never personally suffered a miscarriage, but both my daughter’s have and they both went/are going through a kind of grieving process, which my eldest most definitely didn’t go through when she had her mole removed. Congratulations on your pregnancy.

I'm more shocked how blasé some posters are encouraging posters to have babies when they are in really really shite positions
Some people seem to forget to put the potential child first. The 16 year old could have a baby and then battle against all the things that will make raising a baby a massive struggle or she could abort and wait until she is in a much better position. Why would anyone who isn't antiabortion suggest the first. Of course it's sad! But it's in a potential baby's best interest.

The ones that bother me are the ones where the woman has an abusive partner and carries on with the pregnancy and where there is a 'choice' for the OP to choose to abort. I don't know why anyone would let someone who has shown themselves to be a lowlife to be the father of their kid. I would always abort and then, if I wanted a baby, I'd have one as a single person.
So, yes, I admit to being more blasé about abortions that having a baby with a nasty or abusive 'father' regardless whether he is on the scene or not.

What I don't respect, is a bunch of strangers on the Internet trying to guilt somebody into believing they should have a termination because:

The dads a shit
They don't have an extra bedroom
They're not particularly well off
They were an unwitting OW
(Insert whatever else here)

And yet every single one of those is a valid reason to teminate, if that's what the woman wants. The issue is the recurrence of posts, like yours, that suggest these are not valid reasons because you personally don't agree, made a different choice.

As for support, this is an anonymous board. Posters come here for anonymous support. They don't expect anyone to track them down in real life, that's the point of posting here. And many, many posters track an OP for months, years, across many threads.

Which reminds me, I must catch up with Jamaisjedors - 3 years and counting I have been following her plight, as have many, many other posters!

You say blasé, other people say pro-choice.

I think you can be pro choice but still see abortion as something not to be blasé about. I don’t like the mole/tumour/parasite type comments but obviously it’s their choice to refer to their pregnancy in that way. It’s not something I’d ever say or think and I probably wouldn’t get on with people that thought like that.

This debate would be more rational if we stopped indoctrinating our female young with dollies, princesses and fairytales. Which some never seem to outgrow ...

You sound like you're projecting OP. It's not up to you or anyone else to decide how other women should feel. YABU

@RampantIvy

In the early stages most people don't think of an embryo as a baby, just a bunch of cells. You are using emotive language by calling an embryo a baby.

This is how I view a foetus. It's not a baby to me, it is just cells.

You are trying to remove options to people op. People are suggesting to others that they could have an abortion, to show to the mother that its not a bad thing, she shouldn't feel guilty about it. What exactly is wrong with that? Would you prefer a child born into a bad situation, or have the woman feel guilty and horrible for the rest of her life? That's basically your options from your opinion, that's it. Some situations don't magically get better, this isn't Disney. Some women have abortions to stop the child being abused by their father, I think that is brave. But you don't do you? You'd convince them to have it and let the kid be abused. Why is that?

@Madrenetterhere In 2014, about half (51%) of abortion patients in the United States reported that they had used a contraceptive method in the month they became pregnant, according to a new analysis by Guttmacher researcher Rachel Jones. This proportion represents a slight decrease from 54% of abortion patients in 2000, the last time these data were examined. The methods most commonly used by abortion patients in 2014 were condoms (24% of patients) and the pill (13%).

www.guttmacher.org/news-release/2018/about-half-us-abortion-patients-report-using-contraception-month-they-became

and

Results: Of all the women interviewed, 93% claimed to have adequate knowledge of contraception. At the time of conception 11.5% used safe methods (OCs 8%, IUDs 3.5%), 63% used less safe methods, and 26% were without contraception.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8533567/

Not many people in real life are blasè about termination, and I'm pretty sure they aren't on here. I think deep down we all feel that in an ideal world termination wouldnt be necessary; this is not an ideal world for many women. More importantly women aren't blasè about bringing babies into the world irresponsibly when they they know they aren't in the position to care for them or cope - financially, mentally and without family support.
Please don't say that posters suggesting a termination aren't thinking about the baby as the exact opposite is true.

I agree with you OP. I had a miscarriage at 8 weeks and I used the expression “I lost the baby”. One of my friends told me it wasn’t a baby, it was a collection of cells. I found that really hurtful. I had seen its heartbeat on a screen and to me it was my much wanted baby.

I respect the right of women to choose, and I’m not saying I would never have had an abortion in any circumstances, I might have. But to me it would have been killing a baby, not getting rid of some unwanted cells. I respect that that’s not everyone’s opinion, but it is mine and I think it’s wrong to tell someone that is not what they should believe.

I agree with you. It's possible to have a nuanced approach to abortion. I wouldn't want to be hard line against it but think it's an extreme solution. Unfortunately a lot of people have become desensitised to it.

@Brefugee

sorry, meant to post this from the WHO

Key facts
--Abortion is a common health intervention. It is safe when carried out using a method recommended by WHO, appropriate to the pregnancy duration and by someone with the necessary skills.

• Six out of 10 of all unintended pregnancies end in an induced abortion.
• Around 45% of all abortions are unsafe, of which 97% take place in developing countries.
• Unsafe abortion is a leading – but preventable – cause of maternal deaths and morbidities. It can lead to physical and mental health complications and social and financial burdens for women, communities and health systems.
• Lack of access to safe, timely, affordable and respectful abortion care is a critical public health and human rights issue.

All of that is correct, but I'm not sure why you're posting it - OP has already said she thinks access to abortion is vital and must be protected.

@SierpinskiSquare

I'm more shocked how blasé some posters are encouraging posters to have babies when they are in really really shite positions Some people seem to forget to put the potential child first. The 16 year old could have a baby and then battle against all the things that will make raising a baby a massive struggle or she could abort and wait until she is in a much better position. Why would anyone who isn't antiabortion suggest the first. Of course it's sad! But it's in a potential baby's best interest.

The ones that bother me are the ones where the woman has an abusive partner and carries on with the pregnancy and where there is a 'choice' for the OP to choose to abort. I don't know why anyone would let someone who has shown themselves to be a lowlife to be the father of their kid. I would always abort and then, if I wanted a baby, I'd have one as a single person.
So, yes, I admit to being more blasé about abortions that having a baby with a nasty or abusive 'father' regardless whether he is on the scene or not.

Exactly. If anything, people are too blaze' about having a baby and don't think it through, and posters who suggest they terminate are seeing things from level-headed perspective. Many on here are too blaze' about having a baby. It's a serious decision.

Actually people can be quite insensitive about this issue IRL too OP. I think people don’t get that if you view your foetus as a baby from early on (particularly if you’ve already had children so now how much you love them once born), it can be quite upsetting to have someone casually suggest termination. I have always been very vocal about wanting many children. Baby number 3 was a bit of a surprise as we were using contraception. But we have lots of money, lots of love and time and I was surprised but ultimately it’s exactly what I wanted, just a bit early. Still, my mother in law and best friend still asked me if I was sure I wanted to go through with the pregnancy. It was upsetting because abortion is not an option for me personally and I felt very defensive and protective of my unborn child. I fully understand what you are saying re MN comments but equally if there are people on here who DO view pregnancy as “just a ball of cells” then they probably think they are being helpful and don’t understand why it’s upsetting.

Exactly. If anything, people are too blaze' about having a baby and don't think it through

But there are posters upthread squabbling about whether 70% or 48% of people who haven’t had abortion didn’t use contraception: either one of those numbers is absurdly high! Abortion should be a back stop for awful scenarios or failed contraception. It shouldn’t just be a “could not be fucked to use a condom” method.

I’ve had an abortion. That was a collection of cells.

I’ve also tried to conceive and miscarried, twice. I then went on to have two much wanted pregnancies, which thankfully resulted in healthy births. They categorically were not a collection of cells.

It’s entirely possible to view pregnancies in fundamentally different ways, depending on whether they are wanted or not.

This surely cannot be news to people.

@Nothanksloveimfine

I am totally, 100% in agreement with you as I imagine many of us are but don’t have the time/energy for the barrage of hatred that will inevitably follow.
You are not alone, be assured.

@AHungryCaterpillar

Yes there is another post. I won’t say where as I don’t want it to be a taat but wow the amount of posters coming on to tell her to “just have an abortion” despite the op clearly not wanting to is terrible, but posters trying to guilt her into it as it would be so awful for a baby to be brought up by a single mother 🤨 posters on here seem weirdly keen to push for abortions

ESPECIALLY when the op provides their age. Anyone under 30 is suggested to abort even if they clearly state they don't want to!

Sometimes I feel like people hide behind pro choice. Pro choice as long as make the choice I approve of.

Otherwise you are doomed to a life of poverty, you're too young to do anything. You're a failure and disappoitment. I'd never let my daughter do that!

[quote PinkSyCo]*@PinkSyCo I've been through 3 miscarriages so I can empathise with how your daughter is feeling. To me every baby lost was never just a bunch of cells, they were a baby that I was planning a future with. I hope your daughter is ok, she will get through it with time but it is an awful thing to go through. I'm currently now 17 week's pregnant and this baby also never started out as just a bunch of cells. Sending love x

So sorry for your losses. I’m lucky in that I have never personally suffered a miscarriage, but both my daughter’s have and they both went/are going through a kind of grieving process, which my eldest most definitely didn’t go through when she had her mole removed. Congratulations on your pregnancy. [/quote]
Thank you 😊 I already have a DD who's 5 but it's been hard going through miscarriages and having her then ask me why mummy and daddy are so sad after every loss. My MMC last year resulted in having a D&C so she didn't understand why mummy had to spend a few days in bed unable to function. The grieving process does get easier but it takes time. I'm sorry both your daughters have gone through this, it's truly awful x

I wouldn't have an abortion and didn't when it would have made a huge difference in my life.
However, I have no right to dictate or tell another woman to have an abortion or not. It is up to the individual. No one should have the right to make or stop someone having an abortion.
Sadly in some US states, this is happening.

I have never had an abortion I have 2 pregnancies, one was miscarriage. I currently have a coil, but if it were to fail I wouldn't think twice about having one. I completely see how others would struggle with the decision, and in reality none of know how we would feel until we experience it ourselves. I think it is also important to point out that removing free, safe access to abortion would see a return to dodgy practices circa Victorian england, not to mention the clutch of social issues which would result from a collectively higher birth rate country wide. The fact that women do not have bodily autonomy in many parts of the world is frankly sickening. Not to mention the fact that many couldn't care less once a baby is born and are usually the same people who are outraged by any social programmes and benefits for the poorest in society

I'm more shocked how blasé some posters are encouraging posters to have babies when they are in really really shite positions.

Same here. For lots and lots of women having children isn't sunshine and rainbows as many threads here demonstrate. The amount of posters in shitty positions with young babies or pregnant and I just think why? Why would you chose that for yourself and your child? Of course it is hard, of course it is shit and you are not coping it was always going to be that way but you chose it anyway. But hey at least they aren't 'cold' about abortion.

@NurseBernard

It’s only in your opinion that your aborted baby was ‘a collection of cells’ whilst your wanted children weren’t.
That’s just subjective perception, not fact.