To be shocked by how blasé alot of MNers are about abortion

[Nothanksloveimfine]

Yes its healthcare, yes free and safe abortion is completely necessary because the alternative doesn't bare thinking about, yes everybody has a right to choose what's best for them and yes I am pro choice (whilst being explicitly pro life with regards to my own pregnancies)

With all that said and done, I am quite alarmed at how a sizable % of MNers are so blase about abortions. Whenever a poster is talking about being pregnant with an unplanned baby and in a less than perfect situation, I see alot of posters urging her to just have a termination like its a routine stroll through the park.

I've just read a heartbreaking article which is being discussed at the minute and some of the replies on that thread are so cold. It made me cry and I'm wondering how the hell people can read that and not be impacted by it, completely steamrolling over the tragic loss of life by saying things like "that's a rare case" abortion is a good thing bla bla bla.

Does anybody else share my view or am I the odd one out?

It's like people are so determined to bang the "right to abort" drum, they have no regard for the babies whatsoever.

Abortion can be totally necessary but it's also pretty sad IMO.

You can care about the mother without being so cold and dismissive of the baby they were carrying.

Caring about the babies doesn't mean I hate women, I am one.

Yes I've name changed because I don't expect this will go down well here.

@C8H10N4O2

Gosh it must be hours since we had yet another new poster who is so "totally pro choice BUT..."

As early as possible, as late as necessary, no buts.

Although he's a man, and fictional one at that, Ned Stark of "Game of Thrones" was on the money when he was reported as saying: "Everything before the word but is horseshit".

I also did ask what else you would call it - what is your suggestion?
I personally wouldn't call it anything, as I'm not part of the 'pro-life' movement and do not support their views.

However, someone who was adamantly opposed to abortion might possibly see that as according value to each and every life, as they see it, from conception. They would perhaps see that as a sacred thing. So for them, the view of 'gestational slavery' would not make sense.

Again: this is not my view

You & other posters are missing my point which is that using emotive, demeaning language - about other's views, however much you legitimately oppose them - is not going to enhance understanding or the dialogue.

You can disagree without using language that fails to respect other sincerely held views.

(So, again, my point is the language used. Not whether it's a valid choice)

I think abortion is an awful thing and I'm very glad I was never in a position to have to consider it, as I think it's wrong. However I do believe that women should have the right to terminate pregnancies as there are all sorts of reasons as to why someone might be pregnant and not want to have the baby (abuse and rape are the first things that spring to mind), and I would not judge someone for doing that. Terminations for other reasons, well that's none of my business and it's not for me to judge why people do what they do.

Everyone gets so binary about these things and it’s not helpful for conducive discussion.
I am pro choice, I understand why women have abortions.
I can still think it’s sad and feel for the child that never got to live.
I 100% agree with free and easy access to abortions and I think what is happening in America is outrageous.
It’s possible to have a grown up debate about this, without throwing mud at each other saying ‘your are or you aren’t.’
There’s often nuance in this.

Engage with the topic and stop being nitpicking and abusive.
I engaged with the topic. You didn't engage with my point.

You've been really rude to me. So I won't discuss it with you further - I don't waste time on MN engaging with people who are rude & don't want to discuss reasonably.

I'm neither abusive nor nitpicking and to say so is unfair.

Have a good day 💐

@Gizacluethen

I agree, I think it needs to be available and free and all that but yeah I think it's sad. I saw my son at 7 weeks, his heart pounding away, he was a baby, much more than a cluster of cells.

@Gizacluethen There is no heart or heartbeat at 7 weeks, it is a pole. 'Heartbeat' is a misnomer and is used as a layman's term only because otherwise it's too technical to describe. The heart doesn't actually exist fully and functionally until the third trimester. And at 7 weeks they are a cluster of cells, they are not a baby.

@TalkingCat that is simply not true. Most abortions people did not use or ineffectively used contraception.

You are welcome to share these "peer reviewed" studies though.

@EarringsandLipstick

I also did ask what else you would call it - what is your suggestion? I personally wouldn't call it anything, as I'm not part of the 'pro-life' movement and do not support their views.

However, someone who was adamantly opposed to abortion might possibly see that as according value to each and every life, as they see it, from conception. They would perhaps see that as a sacred thing. So for them, the view of 'gestational slavery' would not make sense.

Again: this is not my view

You & other posters are missing my point which is that using emotive, demeaning language - about other's views, however much you legitimately oppose them - is not going to enhance understanding or the dialogue.

You can disagree without using language that fails to respect other sincerely held views.

(So, again, my point is the language used. Not whether it's a valid choice)

You've repeatedly argued it's not your view. But as you have SUCh an issue with the term I don't think it's unreasonable to ask you what you would call it instead. Go on. Provide a suggestion of what you think would be preferable!

@SamphirethePogoingStickerist

And blah blah yes I know rape

Jesus wept!

Quite! Pretty blase about actual human beings!

It's just a difference of opinion and viewpoint. Not people being actively 'blase' or 'banging the abortion drum'.

For me, if I fell pregnant now, it wouldn't be right. We've completed our family and I love my 2DC to bits but definitely don't need or want any more! For me, I wouldn't be viewing the cells as a baby and thinking of all the cute baby and child events those cells could eventually become - it wouldn't be a baby to me, because I don't want a baby. I would get an abortion without much thought to it... and I don't think that's a problem tbh.

On MN, my experience is that I rarely if ever have seen posters actively encouraging OP's to get abortions. But you'll often see people reminding OPs of options, and giving their opinions about what they'd do in such circumstances. That's kind of the whole point of this forum, right?

I agree, op. Abortion can be extremely traumatic for some people, and they don't always realize that until it is too late. It isn't 'just a collection of cells' to some people, although they might think so at the time. People considering an abortion need both sides of the story. Some women get hit with grief weeks after an abortion that they felt perfectly OK about at the time. Some women feel the implications years later when they have children. Of course, some women are always OK and that's good, but you can't tell who will be negatively affected in advance.

[quote TheCrowFlies]@SockFluffInTheBath
Are you in favour of abortion at 37 weeks?
I doubt it.
This is nuanced. [/quote]
For what reason? As in a woman would wake up one morning at 37wks and think it would be something to do that day, or because a woman found out at 37wks the baby would have a short and painful life on machines, or…?

@TalkingCat who are you?! A fetus doesn't have a heart until the third trimester????? WOW
ITS FOUR CHAMBERS ARE FULLY FORMED BY THE 8TH WEEK GESTATION.

what worries me is people will read your posts and stupidly believe them.

I agree with you OP, and I am definitely pro choice. In fact, I have exercised my right to choose in the past and I’ve never regretted that choice. It’s still sad that abortions have to happen, in my opinion.

I get the impression OP that you're "pro choice but only as long as the woman agonises over her decision and feels suitably wracked with guilt". For some women, who have abortions, the choice whether to or not will have been extremely difficult, and they may well have agonised over it and feel a sense of guilt. For other women, it may have been a very simple decision, which they took and moved on with their life. The point is they should have the option to decide whatever course of action is best for them, and should be able to make that choice free from the judgment of others.

[quote Madrenetterhere]@TalkingCat that is simply not true. Most abortions people did not use or ineffectively used contraception.

You are welcome to share these "peer reviewed" studies though.[/quote]
@Madrenetterhere You are the one spouting things that are simply untrue. Where do you get your facts from? I suggest you check the research from Planned Parenthood and the Guttenmacher Institute that show the majority of women seeking a termination were on contraception. Why do you assume they weren't, and where do you get your facts from?

You are welcome to share your 'evidence'.

But as you have SUCh an issue with the term I don't think it's unreasonable to ask you what you would call it instead.
Go on. Provide a suggestion of what you think would be preferable!

I've tried really hard to make my point. You don't seem to want to take it on board.

I don't have an alternative. I don't see why it needs to be used at all.

It's a loaded term, designed to demean those who hold a different view, as set out in my last post.

I have said they are not my views. I feel people taking polar opposite views, and demeaning others, does not help debate and understanding (on either side).

I really don't know why you want me to suggest alternative terms - why are any needed?

Off to work now - I'll leave it there!

MN seems to be mostly populated by well educated women. On a statistical scale (not anecdotal. Ofcourse you know a doctor with 9 kids) the more educated women are, the less children they have. Due to a mix of effective contraception, terminations when contraception fails and unplanned pregnancies would be financially unwise, and understanding resource distribution. Most mumsnetters are blade about abortion because they can recognise when it is the right choice for the woman to lead a healthier life.

Blase not blade

@AskingforaBaskin

To me it would be the same as having a mole removed. A mass of unwanted cells that could or would cause harm if not dealt with.

I agree with you OP. I think there needs to safe, legal and accessible abortion services, but a life is being ended in abortion and we should be mindful and respectful of that. And not throw about untruths like the above. A human foetus is not a clump of cells or a mole. That is a lie that poster is choosing to believe. I respect opinions different from mine, but only when they are based in reason and reality. I do not respect those who lie to make their case, even when they are arguing on the same side as me.

There's not always a perfect time to have a child, however having it when you are in poverty, partner/husband had an affair and abandoned you, etc isn't very wise, and in those cases abortion would be the best choice. So of course wise Mumsnetters will advocate it.

Thanks for your assessment that my lovely DS shouldn't have been born, because his father chose to he unfaithful.

I was one of the women on mumsnet I was referring to in my OP, who came on for advice and was told the right thing to do was to abort.

Thankfully I disregarded the 'have an abortion, I would definitely have an abortion' and he's now 5 months old.

So no, terminating him would not have been the best choice. Not by a long shot.

@EarringsandLipstick

But as you have SUCh an issue with the term I don't think it's unreasonable to ask you what you would call it instead. Go on. Provide a suggestion of what you think would be preferable!

I've tried really hard to make my point. You don't seem to want to take it on board.

I don't have an alternative. I don't see why it needs to be used at all.

It's a loaded term, designed to demean those who hold a different view, as set out in my last post.

I have said they are not my views. I feel people taking polar opposite views, and demeaning others, does not help debate and understanding (on either side).

I really don't know why you want me to suggest alternative terms - why are any needed?

Off to work now - I'll leave it there!

I really don't know why you want me to suggest alternative terms - why are any needed

They aren't in my opinion! I think gestational slavery covers it just fine. You don't. And you won't make a suggestion for what you think may be preferable.

You keep pretending that people who don't agree with the point you are making aren't actually understanding the point you are making!

To me it would be the same as having a mole removed.
A mass of unwanted cells that could or would cause harm if not dealt with