to think the prospective father does not need to go to every IVF appointment?

[TheOccupier]

Someone who indirectly works for me has recently let me know his wife is having IVF treatment. For the last couple of months, he's been absent frequently, often failing to answer emails, working from home if he's online at all, and not doing site visits which are an important and necessary part of his role. I am unhappy about this.

I am technically his client, not his employer - he's a long-term agency worker by choice (he is senior-level, with fairly unique skills and a lot of responsibility). He has spoken to his agency director about the situation and apparently they have signed off on it. Nobody has proactively communicated with me. I am not based at the office he is meant to work from so I rarely see him in person and wasn't even aware that he'd switched to WFH - I noticed a lot of out of office messages but put these down to site visits. I only found out about the IVF last week when I put him on the spot by asking for the date when he was last at a particular site that he's meant to visit weekly (because there's been an issue there that he should have picked up) and it turned out it's been over 2 months. He then told me what's going on.

So:
a) AIBU to be annoyed about him neglecting his work responsibilities and think IVF is not an acceptable justification?

b) AIBU to believe that the husband/partner does not actually need to attend the majority of IVF appointments and that my agency worker is being unreasonable in acting as though he's the one trying to get pregnant, especially as this is affecting his performance at work?

I am aware that IVF involves a lot of appointments and many of these will be at very short notice. However, the only people I know well who have done IVF have been women using it to become single mothers by choice, and therefore they have just got on with it and done most appointments on their own, other than when they needed physical support/driving home etc. I can't believe most prospective fathers go to ALL the appointments and get away with it at work - especially given that even women don't have any legal right to time off for IVF up until implantation!

If I'm not being unreasonable, how should I handle this? The guy would be difficult to replace, plus I really like him on a personal level, but his poor performance is now causing problems for me and others.

I think you're absolutely spot on, OP. People get incredibly emotive about IVF but the facts are that he has no legal right to time off for this as IVF treatment is not covered under maternity rights. I think the fact you weren't even consulted about it beforehand is very poor form. He thought he could just skip 2 months worth of weekly visits and no-one would notice?!

My husband attended all the appointments. His employer allowed him to take them as family sick, generally a few hours at a time. It was male factor and involved surgery for him and until the egg collection, the bulk of appointments centred on him. The investigations also brought up a health issue in him which required non fertility based appointments.

Really though your issue is with whoever your contract is with so if you are not receiving what was promised talk to them.

YANBU at all. I've had 8 rounds of IVF, and know quite a few couples who've been through it all. It would be bonkers if DH went to every single appointment! He came for the first one with the consultant, then didn't come to the rest till it was egg collection day and he had to do his bit in the cup and then take me home. He came to embryo transfer most of the time, but only when he could get the time off.

I don't understand why your chap needs so much time off though - surely it's just a case of a day for egg collection, and then a couple of hours for embryo transfer? Maybe another couple of hours at the very beginning for blood tests and semen analysis? There's absolutely no need for loads of time off, even for the woman going through most of it!

You could start with showing a bit of compassion IVF is physically and emotionally demanding and yes, he probably does need to be there, not that his reasons for absence are any of your business.
If you're not happy with the service that you're getting, why not discuss with the director whose job presumably it is to make sure work gets covered, and see what plan they can come up with to ensure everyone's needs are met

Some ivf treatments are far more complex than people realise, including those who have more standard treatments and as stated they can throw up other health issues that require investigation and treatment.

We've been trying for a baby for 3 years and due to COVID, I have gone to all of my appointments until very recently alone.

It's scary, it's overwhelming, physically uncomfortable and my husband says he thinks about me all day at work anyway even though he's not there. I would have given anything to have him there, holding my hand. Instead I have a gowned up doctor and nurse (although lovely) with me using technical language and writing notes.

I'm sure nobody going through infertility would wish it on their worst enemy. I think at the very least, you're being very insensitive and showing almost no understanding or empathy at all to what they're potentially going through as a couple.

@Crimesean I’ve done 6 rounds and DH came to every appointment. Luckily his workplace aren’t horrible and facilitated him in attending.

I don't understand why your chap needs so much time off though seriously you’ve done 8 rounds and you’ve no idea why the male might need to come??

• emotional support
• male factor
• ivf abroad

I don’t think yabu to expect him to do his job properly and commit to site visits and perform the tasks he needs to do to complete his role fully. If he is off work for an appointment that day surely some of this work to be completed in the evening as he is working from home already.
I wouldn’t mention the reason behind it or your opinions on whether he should be attending all the appointments. That is not your business and your opinion will not be welcome and isn’t relevant. Focus on the actual issue which is the consistency of their work.

The IVF has nothing to do with you, I wouldn't get into any discussion about what is involved You are paying for a service, he may need to make adjustments at the moment ie. working at different times or adjusting client visits to allow for appointments, to provide the service you are paying for.

I think a lot of people are projecting their own difficult experiences onto @TheOccupier's dilemma here.

She has been more than tolerant of this man not doing his job.

He needs to manage his work & his life: if his work is too much for him, he needs to cut back hours or take a leave of absence. Not assume he is entitled to do no work for good pay!

It's not projection to say her legal relationship is between the agency and her company. That is where her remedy will lie.

The rest is just unnecessary speculation in to private medical treatment.

The wfh and not going on onsite may be related to covid because treatment will stop if they catch covid. Not your problem of course but it may explain why.

Completely agree.
It’s not the Op’s concern what the reasons are. Just because the person stated they are undertaking IVF- there could still be a million other reasons why he is not performing as he should at work. Either way, it’s none of the op’s business. The title of the thread appears to be deliberately antagonistic. Go back to the agency and tell them your concerns about his performance and take it from there.

@Spikeyball

The wfh and not going on onsite may be related to covid because treatment will stop if they catch covid. Not your problem of course but it may explain why.

My DH's employer did not ask him to work on site at certain points as we would have had to pay £1500 if one of us tested positive and we needed to cancel a treatment cycle.

@Crimesean

YANBU at all. I've had 8 rounds of IVF, and know quite a few couples who've been through it all. It would be bonkers if DH went to every single appointment! He came for the first one with the consultant, then didn't come to the rest till it was egg collection day and he had to do his bit in the cup and then take me home. He came to embryo transfer most of the time, but only when he could get the time off.

I don't understand why your chap needs so much time off though - surely it's just a case of a day for egg collection, and then a couple of hours for embryo transfer? Maybe another couple of hours at the very beginning for blood tests and semen analysis? There's absolutely no need for loads of time off, even for the woman going through most of it!

Clearly the OP is not privy to the medical diagnosis and as such has no idea what treatment is involved. Just because your DH didn't need any treatment himself it doesn't mean this chap has not needed certain procedures. Also, as I've said above certain clinics require patients to present a negative covid test and if either of the couple tests positive the entire cycle can be cancelled with a charge. The OP should be unhappy that she's paying a company for a service they are not providing, not be focusing her attention on her annoyance that the representative is going through IVF.

I’m going through ivf at the moment and you can go along to a normal scan and suddenly be told treatment is cancelled as body is not responding. You want a partner there to comfort you.

Also a lot of women going through ivf now will have probably had fertility investigations cancelled during COVID or multiple miscarriages where there partner wasn’t allowed into hospital.

Also just to add after each round/transfer we get a phone call from the consultant. On these days my DH has to work from home so we can both be on the call.

Jesus. People who are going through IVF are going on an absolute roller coaster. YABU.

Quite a lot of the appts do involve the partner. Blood tests. The egg collection day because he'll need to provide sperm to fertilise the eggs.

Not only that, but the who process is f£&@king brutal for women, the needles, the hormones, the egg collection, the blood tests, he is being an amazing supportive partner.

Is he needed for all of the appts, maybe not, but should he support his partner and should any good employer support their staff with things like this? Yes.

Have some humanity.

@redhillrovers

Jesus. People who are going through IVF are going on an absolute roller coaster. YABU.

Quite a lot of the appts do involve the partner. Blood tests. The egg collection day because he'll need to provide sperm to fertilise the eggs.

Not only that, but the who process is f£&@king brutal for women, the needles, the hormones, the egg collection, the blood tests, he is being an amazing supportive partner.

Is he needed for all of the appts, maybe not, but should he support his partner and should any good employer support their staff with things like this? Yes.

Have some humanity.

But the OP is not his employer. She is a client.

She has pair an agency for specific tasks. The agency have taken the money and agreed to those tasks. They hired the man and put him on the job.

The OP has now found out that for 2 months, he hasnt done vital aspects of the job and a problem has arisen because of it. She also doesnt get replies to emails and he doesnt attend meetings.

This is not OK. It doesnt matter what treatment he is involved in. At all.

She has paid an agency for work they've agreed to ensure is carried out. The agency have agreed with this man that he doesnt actually have to do any of the work, they didnt inform or discuss this with the OP but have continued to take her money.

It is not OK.

He’s not doing the job you’re paying for. I’d ask the agency to replace him. They will be able to find him something with reduced hours

Having read your update about him specifically stating ivf means he isn’t going to client sites. That implies to me that he is staying away due to COVID. Imagine going through ivf to be told it’s cancelled as he caught COVID at a client site! It’s just not worth the risk.

@XjustagirlX

Having read your update about him specifically stating ivf means he isn’t going to client sites. That implies to me that he is staying away due to COVID. Imagine going through ivf to be told it’s cancelled as he caught COVID at a client site! It’s just not worth the risk.

But the OP is paying an agency for specific tasks. Site visits are one of the tasks they pay for.

The agency have given this man permission not to do the job, without replacing him or discounting their fee.

They are taking payment for site visits. They are not completing site visits. They did not inform the OP.

If he cannot do the job then the agency need to replace him. That's the risk of being an agency worker.

The agency must fulfill the contract. Or do you expect the OP to continue paying an agency for these tasks, even though the tasks are not being done?

Of course IVF is very difficult.

BUT he has just started a NEW job, which he is taking full payment for, BUT not doing the job.

This is very dishonest.

You don't accept a position and not do the job and claim IVF of a partner as the reason.

If he can't do the job, then he shouldn't be accepting pay for it.

He hasn't done a weekly expect for two months?
Completely unacceptable.

I think the OP sounds very reasonable.
I lot of employers would have fired his ass.

BUT he has just started a NEW job, which he is taking full payment for, BUT not doing the job

The OP has no idea if he's doing his job or not, she's not his employer, she might know that the agency is not providing the service they are contracted for, but that is an entirely different thing.

Like so many incompetent employees on these threads, it's always blame the individual, when it's the agency and her failure to engage with the agency that has caused the problem.

No the problem is the work paid for is not being completed. OP has been told by the person who has not done it and not communicated that it has been left for two months that he doesn’t have to do it because he has cleared not doing it with his employer. It’s totally reasonable (and kind) of her to then enquire what is the norm for people taking time off for this sort of issue. She could just ignore his reasoning and complain to the agency but she has tried to see if she would like to give a more nuanced response. Having had ivf and other fertility treatment multiple times with a husband with similar employment structures I personally don’t think he’s being at all professional or transparent. You should never have had to hear his reasons for not doing part of his job, because it should have been brought to your attention before you found out and had to chase. If you hadn’t tried to book a site meeting with him how long would it have been before you were told? How has it impacted the project?