to think the prospective father does not need to go to every IVF appointment?

[TheOccupier]

Someone who indirectly works for me has recently let me know his wife is having IVF treatment. For the last couple of months, he's been absent frequently, often failing to answer emails, working from home if he's online at all, and not doing site visits which are an important and necessary part of his role. I am unhappy about this.

I am technically his client, not his employer - he's a long-term agency worker by choice (he is senior-level, with fairly unique skills and a lot of responsibility). He has spoken to his agency director about the situation and apparently they have signed off on it. Nobody has proactively communicated with me. I am not based at the office he is meant to work from so I rarely see him in person and wasn't even aware that he'd switched to WFH - I noticed a lot of out of office messages but put these down to site visits. I only found out about the IVF last week when I put him on the spot by asking for the date when he was last at a particular site that he's meant to visit weekly (because there's been an issue there that he should have picked up) and it turned out it's been over 2 months. He then told me what's going on.

So:
a) AIBU to be annoyed about him neglecting his work responsibilities and think IVF is not an acceptable justification?

b) AIBU to believe that the husband/partner does not actually need to attend the majority of IVF appointments and that my agency worker is being unreasonable in acting as though he's the one trying to get pregnant, especially as this is affecting his performance at work?

I am aware that IVF involves a lot of appointments and many of these will be at very short notice. However, the only people I know well who have done IVF have been women using it to become single mothers by choice, and therefore they have just got on with it and done most appointments on their own, other than when they needed physical support/driving home etc. I can't believe most prospective fathers go to ALL the appointments and get away with it at work - especially given that even women don't have any legal right to time off for IVF up until implantation!

If I'm not being unreasonable, how should I handle this? The guy would be difficult to replace, plus I really like him on a personal level, but his poor performance is now causing problems for me and others.

The issue is his performance, not the IVF. He needs to be communicating.
You need a workplace IVF policy then it's all laid out in stone what time he can have off.

I absolutely needed my husband for IVF appointments, so many were very emotional. In the early stages getting a diagnosis/plan requires a lot of focus too I was grateful for a 2nd pair of ears. Plus it's the man's situation too: seman analysis, results, teaching how to inject, providing the sample, driving home wife who has been sedated.
However the 5 min scans every couple of days while stimming could absolutely be done alone. Hence why my work ivf policy gave more time off for women than men.

If he is an agency worker are you bought contracting a service, so it is for the agency to provide the manpower rather than an individual.
His employer is happy with his attendance so you need to complain about them not him.
Take the emotion out of it.

My DH came to every appointment apart from one that he just couldn't get away from work for.

It was a scan to check how many follicles I had produced and to measure them. On previous cycles this had been a routine scan with no drama.

Unfortunately this time it uncovered a problem which meant I had to make a big decision. I was devastated and ended up having to call my mum away from work to come and support me.

IVF/IUI is so emotional and not straightforward for everyone. I know couples who have split up under the strain of it.

It didn't work for me despite four attempts and was a very difficult thing to go through so I have to say I think YABU to think the DH shouldn't be at the appointments.

It’s irrelevant why he isn’t doing his job.

Wow. Questioning why he'd go to every appointment. Let's hope you never have an important life event which requires some flexibility.

I had a few rounds of ivf to have my dd. I understand the contractor may have needed minor surgery first. His wife / partner may also have needed surgery. The only surgery I can think of where a considerable lag between surgery and ivf will not be necessary is sperm retrieval.

A round of ivf take 2-3 weeks. His wife / partner will have blood tests before and after. They may also have needed additional tests in weeks running up to the start of ivf. If his wife / partner is at the end of the ivf process with him going to every appointment, I can see why he wouldn’t have had time to both attend all these appointments and complete all the work he is contracted to do.

To have not visited a site for over 2 months that he is contracted to visit weekly does seem to be stretching it though. You definitely should challenge the agency as they aren’t fulfilling their contractual obligations and you’ve been paying for work, which hasn’t been done and with zero explanation from the agency.

If my dh had come to all my appointments, he would hardly have been at work. I needed tests, a biopsy of the uterus lining, treatments and surgery in between cycles. For the surgery after a failed cycle, he took me to the GP in agony after work to get painkillers and drove me to and from hospital for the surgery plus to have my stitches removed a week later as I wasn’t allowed to drive.

As for the actual ivf, he came to see the gynaecologist to confirm we both wanted a referral for ivf, the initial ivf appointment, to give his sample then took me for egg collection. I drove myself for the embryo transfer. Four occasions for the first cycle and less for subsequent ones. I went alone to the egg growth scans every two days, pre and post ivf blood tests. There were not many fathers joining the women having growth scans, the odd one came for the post ivf blood tests… and I did this a few times before being successful.

As an aside, I wasn’t working so that was vastly helpful for my stress levels. I don’t know how women do it and work. They must be incredibly strong both physically and emotionally.

If this couple have another child, he may be needed for childcare. I also get why she may need support during all appointments. However, I think this is the agency’s problem to solve rather than yours. And I would have thought as their employer, for them to absorb the costs rather than you.

The IVF is irrelevant here. As an aside I’d want my husband at every appointment if he were able to.

What is relevant is that he isnt performing and this needs to be discussed with the agency. The fact is he is meant to visit sites weekly and hasn’t visited a site for 2 months is not down to the ivf (in my opinion). You need to liaise with the agency and set out the poor performance with them and ask how/when it will be resolved. You’re paying for a service that isn’t being provided. If they are supporting him with the ivf, great, but then they need to find a away to ensure that the work is also done.

I’d also suggest a bit of a time motion study about responses to emails, away from the office notes etc. I’d also check with each site when he last visited.

I’d suggest checking in with your HR to get some advice. In my place if the agency staff isn’t performing I think we give a weeks notice.

Perhaps the agency was asked for some leeway - I'd be surprised if they would be happy with him not showing up at supposedly weekly site visits for more than 2 months.

You sound a nightmare.

That is so out of line. Check yourself.

Sorry OP but you sound completely heartless.

Clearly never experienced infertility, it's a heartbreaking journey to be on and I needed my partner with me every step of the way and although he didn't need to attend some of the appointments. I needed him there for support. This was before the IVF route and I am so thankful we didn't need to go down that route but you can bet your bottom dollar that my other half would have been at every appointment with me if needed for my own emotional well being.

If you are not happy with his work, then there is a simple solution to that isn't there!

I don’t think they need to go to every appointment but it is a hard road to travel and will make his relationship better in the long run. Maybe just say that this puts pressure on your business but you understand why he wants to do it. A long time ago now but at the clinic I went to NHS/private they ran appointments from 7am.

If you are not happy with his work, then there is a simple solution to that isn't there!

I think it is those that are so indignant that ate being unreasonable. I keep reading the above, you make it sound like getting rid of him won't cause him any issues.
Op seemed to be checking if she had a different option.

I did many rounds of IVF. I think the man is needed really.
However appointments don't take all day unless they are travelling a long distance for them.
So I think the IVF is a red herring here as he appears to be not doing far more work than IVF would account for.

YANBU @TheOccupier and I think you’re getting a hard time on here.

Your client is clearly not doing his job and is using his wife’s medical procedures as an excuse.

The issue is that he needs to manage his workload - I don’t know why we give men a Get Out of Jail Free card on this matter.

If I were you, I’d raise it with the agency and say he is not doing what he’s paid to do for you and things either need to improve or you will seek another person who can do the job properly.

@MrsRobinsonsHandprints I wasn't suggesting OP bins him off, of course this would cause issues for him, simply speaking to her client about her concerns of his performance doesn't seem unreasonable to me!

IVF is stressful. Both my sisters have been through it. Being there for one another is really important. OK, some couples choose for the man not to be present at every appointment, but every couple is different.

The issue here is his work performance, so I'd start with that. Two of my colleagues are pregnant, older mums who need more appointments with the mw, various tests etc. They go to their appointments, and are conscientious about their work, sometimes staying late to complete it. They don't have to, they're entitled to time off for appointments. But their work ethic means they manage their workloads effectively.

I've been having IVF since beginning of February and DP has come to one appointment with me to do the cup thing. He hasn't been needed at any other appointment and tbh it annoys me when men are taking up seats in the clinic!

My DP is also an agency worker and would miss out of hundreds of pounds earnings to attend an appointment with me.

I'm happy he doesn't come. He isn't needed. Yanbu

I think your complicating two things here.
Hes not doing his job ( the reason is somewhat irrelevant) so you need to go to the agency you hired to complete this task and discuss with them what cover is being provided for the task you hired them to fulfill.

Ask the agency for someone else. It's great to be supportive but isn't that why you use agency staff, so you get get someone else when it isn't working for you. Feel all the sympathy in the world for them but he's not your employee. Same for agency staff who are long term sick or even pregnant, not your issue ask for a replacement.

I'm starting IVF today, and this sort of opinion is exactly what scared my husband and I into delaying treatment quite a few times.

IVF is a huge undertaking, and not one we took on lightly. We've had to fight to be accepted for treatment for 2 years, and the thought of our employment being compromised based on our very natural desire to perhaps, maybe, some day have a family of our own is so bitterly cruel.

Cut the guy some temporary slack. He's going through a lot more than I think you know.

I am technically his client

Then manage it as a client/supplier relationship.

Stop thinking of it as anything to do with employer tracking what you're doing, the level of detail you seem to demand is suggestive of disguised employment, your own HR policies almost certainly do not let you go into this detail (to avoid disguised employment risks)

My DH came with me to every appointment as it was a very stressful and emotional experience. As far as we were concerned he needed to be there. It's not unreasonable for him to support his wife through medical treatment. His employer has agreed to this. If you aren't happy with the service you're receiving as a client then you can discuss this with the agency.

I did most of my ivf appointments on my own which was fine but there was a few I would have liked my husband to be with me. He wouldn't have been allowed the time off to be there though so I managed.

Thanks all (except @BabyLove22 who has been reported for abuse - sticks and stones, etc - and whoever said I sound like a nightmare ).

In terms of me judging the reason for his poor performance, and to those people saying it's none of my business: how do you think I found out? He TOLD me about the IVF when I asked about the site visits, and presented it as a reasonable justification for not doing them. He basically said "we're doing IVF, have appointments every other day and get called in at short notice so I'm WFH and not visiting sites". He implied that his presence at all the IVF appointments is essential and I was hoping to find out here whether that is really the case before I raise this with his agency. He didn't actually say that the agency has approved it - I am speaking to the director today, hence starting this thread. In the past 24 hours I have learnt that there is no right to time off in law for IVF dads, that men sometimes have to do more than just "the bit with the cup", and that most couples (from what I can see here) prefer the man to attend most appointments but some people do manage without. This is all useful.

In terms of structure:

• he's not paid hourly
• he's not self-employed
• he's not a "consultant"

He's an employee of the agency. My company pays the agency a fixed fee to provide certain agreed services (including the weekly site visits). The services are specified in our contract, and are no longer being delivered. It is meant to be a long-term arrangement and continuity is important hence my reluctance to ask for a replacement (which would anyway take a while to organise).

It sounds as if either he or the agency have decided it is ok to skip the work that your organisation is paying for. I would take it up strongly with them and focus on the work not being done rather than the IVF. Their communication has been atrocious. His has not been great either.
IVF is emotional and potentially traumatic and it is lovely he is supporting his partner. But just deciding it is ok not to turn up to a client repeatedly is not acceptable.