to think the prospective father does not need to go to every IVF appointment?

[TheOccupier]

Someone who indirectly works for me has recently let me know his wife is having IVF treatment. For the last couple of months, he's been absent frequently, often failing to answer emails, working from home if he's online at all, and not doing site visits which are an important and necessary part of his role. I am unhappy about this.

I am technically his client, not his employer - he's a long-term agency worker by choice (he is senior-level, with fairly unique skills and a lot of responsibility). He has spoken to his agency director about the situation and apparently they have signed off on it. Nobody has proactively communicated with me. I am not based at the office he is meant to work from so I rarely see him in person and wasn't even aware that he'd switched to WFH - I noticed a lot of out of office messages but put these down to site visits. I only found out about the IVF last week when I put him on the spot by asking for the date when he was last at a particular site that he's meant to visit weekly (because there's been an issue there that he should have picked up) and it turned out it's been over 2 months. He then told me what's going on.

So:
a) AIBU to be annoyed about him neglecting his work responsibilities and think IVF is not an acceptable justification?

b) AIBU to believe that the husband/partner does not actually need to attend the majority of IVF appointments and that my agency worker is being unreasonable in acting as though he's the one trying to get pregnant, especially as this is affecting his performance at work?

I am aware that IVF involves a lot of appointments and many of these will be at very short notice. However, the only people I know well who have done IVF have been women using it to become single mothers by choice, and therefore they have just got on with it and done most appointments on their own, other than when they needed physical support/driving home etc. I can't believe most prospective fathers go to ALL the appointments and get away with it at work - especially given that even women don't have any legal right to time off for IVF up until implantation!

If I'm not being unreasonable, how should I handle this? The guy would be difficult to replace, plus I really like him on a personal level, but his poor performance is now causing problems for me and others.

YABVVVU.

He's a consultant, his time belongs to him and if you're not happy with his performance you can choose a different consultant. It is none of your business how many appointments he goes to or what his arrangement with his agency is. He's only told you as a matter of interest, not because it has any relevance to you.

I think the point is his ivf appointments are being used as the reason he’s not fulfilling his role and far from being insensitive OP is asking if this is reasonable as she DOESN’T understand the process. Many with experience of ivf have said they didn’t have their partner at appointments to that degree and that they were able to continue work.

I work in HR and most organisations sadly dont give dads paid time off for all IVF appts. He may be using Annual Leave or unpaid leave.

Aside from that, you don't actually know the reason for his absence. Your not his manager so it really has got nothing to do with you.

If your frustrated at the level of service you should inform his manager and work on a plan of action for him. Have you spoke to him first abt your concerns?

Sounds like he is having a hard time. But tbh your being a bit unreasonable to ask the question about IVF - absolutely nothing to do with you and you dont know his personal circumstances/business.

Focus on the work issue but please leave your personal opinions out of it regarding IVF. Hopefully your not ever in a position to have to go through IVF as i hear its a long, painful and difficult process.

I noticed a lot of out of office messages but put these down to site visits. I only found out about the IVF last week when I put him on the spot by asking for the date when he was last at a particular site that he's meant to visit weekly (because there's been an issue there that he should have picked up) and it turned out it's been over 2 months. He then told me what's going on.

Seriously, this is a problem! It doesn't matter, ultimately, what the reasons are - he isn't doing his job. That's more than 8 weekly visits he has not turned up to. Hard to imagine a scenario where this is acceptable.

The joys of being self employed - you can take time off when you like.

Benefits of using a self employed agency worker - if you don't think they're doing a good job, you can replace them without the rigours of dismissing & employment law - because he is not your employee.

You sound a nightmare.

The guy doesn't work for you, so you have no right to question what he does with his personal time, and actually many people successfully work part-time whether male or female. If the agency are billing you for time that wasn't worked, or if there are service delivery gaps, then complain about those things. For example, if a site should be visited weekly and isn't visited for 3 weeks then that is a service delivery gap; demanding that a professional must go on a Thursday only, because you decided on Thursday, would be odd and unusual; what you can do is to ask them to give you a plan for ensuring every site is visited each week, even if he is unavailable. You need to be extremely clear in your own mind before complaining though about the limit of your interest in what he personally does on his own time; your interest is only in the work that you pay for. During time you don't pay for, it is not your business whether he's doing another job, going to IVF appointments, getting his own medical treatment or lounging in bed.

IVF is a horrific experience for many couples - each and every appointment has the potential for devastating news. My husband and I had somewhere close to 100 appointments altogether. He couldn’t come with me to all of them. On one occasion, I went alone and was so traumatised afterwards that I drove halfway home, and had to stop in a supermarket car park and was in such a terrible state that someone called the police to check that I was ok.
Have some compassion please.

I think your starting point is with the Agency. As you say you have been left out of any communication about this, but I trust they are still sending you the same invoices for his service each month?

I think you are getting a bit of a tough time on here. There is a difference between giving someone a bit of flexibility (not being heartless) and allowing a situation where someone isn’t doing their job to continue. Also, when people choose agency/consultancy work they are aware, or should be, that some of the things they are trading off for a higher salary are the “perks” for want of a better word of being an employee and part of a team where people know and allow for your personal circumstances.

When I was going through cancer treatment I would have loved it if DH could have been with me for every appointment and treatment but the reality was he needed to work and sometimes be away from home so I had to arrange a combination of helpful friends and just getting on with it. It is lovely that this man wants to support his partner but if they are relying on his earnings he probably can’t afford to lose a job.

I think the IVF is a bit of a red herring really - he’s not your employee, it’s a purely contractual relationship - and if he’s not doing his job, he’s not doing his job, and you need to raise that with the agency and make it their problem to fix.

I only found out about the IVF last week when I put him on the spot by asking for the date when he was last at a particular site that he's meant to visit weekly (because there's been an issue there that he should have picked up) and it turned out it's been over 2 months.

This is unacceptable, regardless of the reason. You should have been made aware of him not being able to attend. Whatever the reason, he can’t just not do his work and not tell you.
That doesn’t mean I think he shouldn’t go to the appointments. But he should have brought it up with you to discuss how his work would be done, not just disappeared off and not said anything.

God! We will probably go through IVF later this year, and I do hope my clients or DH's clients won't be as heartless and mean as you are.

I would double check with the agency that they have "signed off on it". You've only got his word for that. And what have they actually agreed to? Agreeing that he can attend IVF appointments is different to agreeing he can 100% work from home and not carry out essential site visits.

I mean I sympathise I do from a business perspective - I did 5 rounds of IVF in 18 months - but DH didn't come to a single appointment unless it was sample day - did all transfers on my own. I don't actually see the need to have your partner there to be honest it's pretty unnecessary and anyway during covid they weren't allowed. But you sound like a robot and lacking in compassion

Having had IVF (failed several times, we gave up), all the steps are emotional even the basics of bloods (may or may not be responding etc.) And as wife/partner YES. I did need supporting and I appreciated his support, but here's the thing, it is also hugely emotional for the partner too!it's NOT just about him supporting his partner, it's about the emotional toll it will be having on him as well. I saw my husband crumble at times due to the emotional pressure. I personally had to go on the sick for a few weeks.
I understand it's affecting his work, I think my husband managed on the whole , just certain days caused the upset, but that's for the company to sort out.

I'm leaning towards yanbu, since I can't agree that fertility issues should be treated as same priority/urgency as many things, like supporting a partner thru palliative care, cancer treatment or recovering from bereavement.

Anyway, point to the service you paid for & are not receiving. Don't comment on the reasons for his absence, instead put a positive spin on situation 'I can see how X is so busy since he's so good at his job, I'm optimistic that you can find someone else equally capable in your firm who can give my company more of their time.' type tone.

He's missed 3 site visits so far?

You are not his friend or employer - you are buying his services and you are not getting what you paid for, so all this talk of " have a heart" has nothing to do with the situation. It does sound as though much of his absence is not justified simply by ivf appointments, but again, the reason why he isn't providing the service you are paying for, is not an issue. If you were his employer, you would follow a different route, but you are not.

I would address this on that basis. If it can't be resolved, you will have to find someone else because, however good he is at his work, he needs to do what he is being paid for.

Address the absence rather than the reason so you aren't shot down
To me it smacks snowflake but I detest all the 'we are pregnant' and "our fertility journey shite.
I have male colleagues who didn't physically attend births of their children .
The only "appointments" my husband attended was the natural conceptions and the birth ( be it outside the theatre) .

I had IVF at a clinic 100 miles away. DH came to the initial consultation and to egg collection (obviously!) and embryo transfer.
All the scans etc my Dad drove me to. The nurses thought he was my DH for a while- as he was mid 60s at the time they seemed very relieved when they met DH😂

I understand that he might want to be at every appointment and that it's emotional but it sounds like he is taking the piss if he hasn't done even basic visits. Who at your work place is responsible for hiring him? Is it you? I would definitely speak to the agency.

Honestly you need to forget about the IVF and speak to the agency that you work with and ask if there's another solution as things aren't getting done. It sounds as though the agency knows their staff if going through a rough ride and have allowed time off.
This shouldn't affect you, therefore speak with the agency.
As you've said you have no idea about the IVF process, don't comment on it. I've been there with failed IVF attempts, when the IVF cycle took nearly 3 months rather than 2 as the treatment wasn't going as planned, this involved a lot of shitty appointments basically telling me my body wasn't doing as it was told.... I couldn't conceive and then my body wasn't even reacting to treatment! Woop! Failure!
My husband come to most appointments if work allowed.

@Moodycow78

It honestly sounds like he's using it as an excuse and taking the p**s Tbh. I've been through IVF, yes it's a hard process but it doesn't actually take that long or involve too many appointments, it didn't really impact on either of our jobs that much. We took holiday for appointments, he came to all of them I think but it's not that many per run. I took a couple days sick, both continued to work from the office. My DH was doing all my daily injections but you do them around work.

For you. I've had 7 years of fertility treatments, side effects, OHSS and at one egg retrieval a dangerous bleed (doctor panicking, emergency button pushed, people running in, the whole shebang). Oh and in my country they don't do egg retrieval under GA. It was more painful than hours of contractions.

My DH came to every appointment until Covid.

But great that you had it so easy.

@TheOccupier

If he does a good job generally, do you want to create a problem over this?

The thing is, he's not doing a good job any more. And I'm aware this situation could go on a lot longer. I am sympathetic, but not to the extent of tolerating poor performance or picking up the slack myself (he's not cheap).

Then talk to the agency and request someone else. He and his wife’s fertility is none of your business!

OP, you have no right to judge his decision to go to the IVF appointments. You have every right to judge the standard of work that he delivers.