to think the prospective father does not need to go to every IVF appointment?

[TheOccupier]

Someone who indirectly works for me has recently let me know his wife is having IVF treatment. For the last couple of months, he's been absent frequently, often failing to answer emails, working from home if he's online at all, and not doing site visits which are an important and necessary part of his role. I am unhappy about this.

I am technically his client, not his employer - he's a long-term agency worker by choice (he is senior-level, with fairly unique skills and a lot of responsibility). He has spoken to his agency director about the situation and apparently they have signed off on it. Nobody has proactively communicated with me. I am not based at the office he is meant to work from so I rarely see him in person and wasn't even aware that he'd switched to WFH - I noticed a lot of out of office messages but put these down to site visits. I only found out about the IVF last week when I put him on the spot by asking for the date when he was last at a particular site that he's meant to visit weekly (because there's been an issue there that he should have picked up) and it turned out it's been over 2 months. He then told me what's going on.

So:
a) AIBU to be annoyed about him neglecting his work responsibilities and think IVF is not an acceptable justification?

b) AIBU to believe that the husband/partner does not actually need to attend the majority of IVF appointments and that my agency worker is being unreasonable in acting as though he's the one trying to get pregnant, especially as this is affecting his performance at work?

I am aware that IVF involves a lot of appointments and many of these will be at very short notice. However, the only people I know well who have done IVF have been women using it to become single mothers by choice, and therefore they have just got on with it and done most appointments on their own, other than when they needed physical support/driving home etc. I can't believe most prospective fathers go to ALL the appointments and get away with it at work - especially given that even women don't have any legal right to time off for IVF up until implantation!

If I'm not being unreasonable, how should I handle this? The guy would be difficult to replace, plus I really like him on a personal level, but his poor performance is now causing problems for me and others.

I’d say he’s taking the piss a bit even if he’s attending every appointment. The typical pathway for IVF would be:
Semen analysis - produce onsite or drop off
Medical consult - 1h
Nurse planning - 1h
Maybe additional blood test appointment
Once they are in active treatment there will be 3 or 4 scans usually every other day - but these are often 20min appointments first thing in the morning. Then a whole day off for the egg collection as wife will need someone at home when they get back. Nothing to stop him logging on though. Then probably most of another day for the embryo transfer. The appointment is 30mins but don’t necessarily know the time until the day before.

The other factor is how far away the clinic is, my DH came to all my appointments but we both still worked full time & made up the hours.

The every other day & short notice appointments is the last 2 weeks at most.

@MissChanandlerBong80

I think the IVF is a bit of a red herring really - he’s not your employee, it’s a purely contractual relationship - and if he’s not doing his job, he’s not doing his job, and you need to raise that with the agency and make it their problem to fix.

That. He's not undertaken weekly site visits for two months. The IVF is unlikely to have been the reason for him skiving that every single week.

His attitude needs sorting, and if he blames it all on the IVF then that needs unpicking and it being made clear that the occasional appointment does not fit with his pattern of consistent work avoidance.

OP,
I think as a new client you have been treated very poorly.

It is not even 6 months and he has abandoned core duties.

They are providing a much reduced service for the same fee?

Not your business as to why.

You have every reason to be pissed off at his unilateral decision to not fulfil his contract requirements.

It does seem like he is taking the piss a bit with it, do you really have appointments every other day with ivf?

Op really hasn't been heartless at all. We get it, lots of people have fertility problems, but some of you are taking it personally.

He's an employee of the agency. My company pays the agency a fixed fee to provide certain agreed services (including the weekly site visits). The services are specified in our contract, and are no longer being delivered. It is meant to be a long-term arrangement and continuity is important hence my reluctance to ask for a replacement (which would anyway take a while to organise).
This is what you need to focus on. Not whatever he has said about IVF, which is a red herring. The agency is not delivering what they should be, the worker is no longer appropriate for the role and they need to work that out with you.

You do sound spectacularly heartless and lacking any sort of empathy though.

@AvinABarney

Op really hasn't been heartless at all. We get it, lots of people have fertility problems, but some of you are taking it personally.

I don’t have fertility problems so not taking this personally at all.

OP is being a bit of a bellend about the IVF situation. He’s entitled to be annoyed about the work but the language he uses to discuss is awful and shows he is lacking in any sort of empathy or even basic awareness.

Yes he does need to be there at every appointment. YABVVVU

So you think that his job should come before the well-being of his partner and family to make your life easier OP? Agency workers have more freedom to choose when they work. I get that it's frustrating for you, but try and have some empathy for what they are going through. I think its great that he wants to support his partner this way, as I know that IVF can take a huge toll on a person's emotional and mental health.

But people who have had IVF have responded saying you don't have as many appointments as he is making out?

Isn't usual policy for leave that a person requests leave and gives a reason? Not just fucks off as and when taking the money and not doing their job?

Yanbu to complain to the agency about poor service. However the ivf is none of your business. Some employers are more generous than others about compassionate leave. My dh was disciplined for taking unpaid parental leave to look after our disabled dc when I was in hospital with sepsis but my in-laws who work in the civil service have employers who are far more generous. It's up to the agency to decide whether he can have the time off and also their responsibility to make sure his absence doesn't affect the service you as a client are getting.

The IVF is not the issue, you could swap that out for any medical reason. The worker also isn’t the issue as you don’t have a direct contract with him. You have a contract with a company and if they are not performing as per the contract, then you should bring this up with the company. Stick to work facts, don’t mention the IVF as it is nothing to do with it.

The OP is not a charity.
This is a new recruit who is not fulfilling his contract.

His private life is just that.
He has taken up a job that he is being well paid for but is not doing it.

The OP is not heartless.

If he had been working there for years, more flexibility would be reasonable, but a new recruit not bothering to do key tasks because of his private life, for two months, is not acceptable.

He is taking full pay in a new job and not doing the job.

Completely unreasonable.

@SmallPrawnEnergy why are you assuming I'm male? Because I'm coming over tough and businesslike? Check yourself.

It's completely irrelevant whether he should be at the appointments or not. If you are paying a company to provide a service, and they are no longer meeting those expectations, you have a right to query this with the company. Not with the individual as if he's cleared it with his company and they said yes he is not doing anything wrong. But his company have a duty to make sure they are meeting the expectations of your contract with them - including them finding cover if he cannot meet all demands (for whatever reason).

So - you're annoyed at the wrong person I think!

I imagine you have a contract for services between your company and the agency. So you go back to the contract terms.

The personal medical issues are not relevant to you. That is an issue for the agency and the worker.

I don't think anyone is suggesting there isn't an issue. Just that you are coming at it from the wrong angle.

@theunamedcat Yes, but not for the whole month - basically an IVF cycle mimics your monthly cycle but instead of 1 ovary producing 1 egg, you take a cocktail of drugs to (hopefully) make both ovaries release multiple eggs, which gives you a higher chance of fertilisation and hopefully a successful transfer.

You have to be very closely monitored to see how the eggs are growing, so while you're in the 'stim' process, you have to go in every other day or so for an internal scan. They literally measure how many mm each egg is, so they can time everything to make sure the eggs are collected at optimum size for fertilisation. Too early and the eggs aren't mature enough, too late and they're 'over mature' and not viable.

For this period of time you are at the clinic's beck and call. When we did our 6th (and only successful) ivf cycle, we had booked a hotel room near the clinic for the night before the egg collection procedure, as we had to be there early and we lived out of London. My eggs developed faster than they anticipated so we had to cancel and rebook with a few hours' notice, and go up a day early.

And this is before you've even got the the point of waiting to see how many actually fertilise and become viable embryos, and how many stop growing or fail to fertilise at all (the daily phonecalls from the lab made my stomach drop). and when you transfer a great looking embryo there's no guarantee it will stick.

It's an extremely stressful process and as pp said every appointment has the potential for disaster. However, that being said I think this guy is taking he piss a bit. Even if he has been going to all appointments, it doesn't justify this much time off. I think the ivf is a bit of a red herring, there's no excuse for not doing site visits for 2 months!

So not only is this highly confidential issue being gossiped about by his clients, you’ve brought it onto a public forum? Classy. It doesn’t sound like you have any day whatsoever in his work circumstances despite being privy to them. I would discuss performance with the team who initially agreed his terms as I’m sure there’s a great deal you don’t know. There usually is.

@TheOccupier

If he does a good job generally, do you want to create a problem over this?

The thing is, he's not doing a good job any more. And I'm aware this situation could go on a lot longer. I am sympathetic, but not to the extent of tolerating poor performance or picking up the slack myself (he's not cheap).

So change, you don't need any reason other than the above - the rest was just setting up an argument.

Having done IVF as a couple - yes he probably needs to attend more than just one appointment but no he doesn’t actually NEED to attend all of them- especially not at the expense of doing his job.

There are lots of appointments. It’s just not practical. And yes I get emotional support - I really do- but sometimes you have to put your big girl / boy pants on as a couple and deal with it. It’s not so different from midwife appointments & check ups through pregnancy- it would be nice to do them all as a couple but most people don’t!

Your best route though if you speak to the agency about site visits and tell them they need doing. Then it’s up to them to sort it with him.

Work that you are paying for is not being done.
The agency has to ensure they deliver the service you are paying them for. Nothing else matters.

YABVVVU
I recently underwent IVF and wanted my husband with me. We had a very late loss last year and the process was both physically and mentally exhausting for me and I needed my husband there for support. I hope you never have to go through this process, never mind without the support of your spouse.

Your only concern is whether he’s doing his job properly. If he’s not doing his job properly then he needs an opportunity to get back up to scratch, and if that doesn’t work, he needs to go.

People go through all sorts of difficult things in life and employers should take into account that people are human with human issues, but that understanding doesn’t have to go so far that people can be completely shit at their jobs and expect to keep them.

Having ivf isn’t something like a bereavement where you’d expect someone to work at a lower level for a while and gradually build back up to full performance. This could go on for years. What if they need 4/5 cycles of IVF, then have high risk pregnancy that needs lots of appointments? That’s a long time to subsidise someone who doesn’t do their job well.

You don’t have to be physically present for two months to support your wife (and I find the implication that husbands who aren’t there are not supportive horrible). In my case most of the appointments were before 9 and fairly quick. While this couple may be different he should have been able to organise and go to work outside the house. You can’t and shouldn’t have to be guessing what’s going on though. Just explain the site visits aren’t optional and arrange a time he will be there. (Nb ivf does have weeks which are more difficult than others so I would imagine he could do the following or preceding week if that was the case)