to think the prospective father does not need to go to every IVF appointment?

[TheOccupier]

Someone who indirectly works for me has recently let me know his wife is having IVF treatment. For the last couple of months, he's been absent frequently, often failing to answer emails, working from home if he's online at all, and not doing site visits which are an important and necessary part of his role. I am unhappy about this.

I am technically his client, not his employer - he's a long-term agency worker by choice (he is senior-level, with fairly unique skills and a lot of responsibility). He has spoken to his agency director about the situation and apparently they have signed off on it. Nobody has proactively communicated with me. I am not based at the office he is meant to work from so I rarely see him in person and wasn't even aware that he'd switched to WFH - I noticed a lot of out of office messages but put these down to site visits. I only found out about the IVF last week when I put him on the spot by asking for the date when he was last at a particular site that he's meant to visit weekly (because there's been an issue there that he should have picked up) and it turned out it's been over 2 months. He then told me what's going on.

So:
a) AIBU to be annoyed about him neglecting his work responsibilities and think IVF is not an acceptable justification?

b) AIBU to believe that the husband/partner does not actually need to attend the majority of IVF appointments and that my agency worker is being unreasonable in acting as though he's the one trying to get pregnant, especially as this is affecting his performance at work?

I am aware that IVF involves a lot of appointments and many of these will be at very short notice. However, the only people I know well who have done IVF have been women using it to become single mothers by choice, and therefore they have just got on with it and done most appointments on their own, other than when they needed physical support/driving home etc. I can't believe most prospective fathers go to ALL the appointments and get away with it at work - especially given that even women don't have any legal right to time off for IVF up until implantation!

If I'm not being unreasonable, how should I handle this? The guy would be difficult to replace, plus I really like him on a personal level, but his poor performance is now causing problems for me and others.

If you aren't happy with his work speak to the agency.
Don't tell them they shouldn't let him attend IVF appointments.

"so I was under the impression that the father's presence is really only essential at "the one with the cup"."

Some ivf treatments are more complicated than cups, sometimes involving surgery for the male.

I’ve done ivf multiple times and like a previous poster dh didn’t come to all the appointments. Even when he did he went back to work afterwards, so like a dentist appointment late in or early out from the office. I’d be mightily passed off at his clients being privy to our fertility treatment though.

From an IVF nurse - yabvu and pretty heartless tbh to think the man doesn't need to go to all the appointments, it's just as much his medical treatment as his wife's. Why should a woman have to do it all alone when she's accessing treatment with a partner. I don't understand what relevance it is that you had friends who did it as single women. Unless you've been through this heart wrenching highly stressful experience of IVF you should not and cannot judge.
It sounds like he's just being a bit shit at his job and not fulfilling his duties and that's what needs to be addressed, not that he's attending IVF appointments. If he's taking more time off than the appointment actually takes, can't he be asked for proof of appointment. E.g he takes a whole day off for an appointment.

It's not necessarily plain sailing physically for his partner. I had a terrible reaction to the drugs and was very unwell. You know a lot less about their fertility issues, their treatment plan, his relationship and his choices than you seem to think you do.

Focus on what your business needs, communicate with the agency and ask them to come up with solutions.

it's just as much his medical treatment as his wife's it really isn’t.

@5zeds and why is that?

It’s a bit like “we are pregnant” @Lily2075. I’m sure there are some men that need additional procedures to participate in an ivf cycle. Is that what you meant?

@Lily2075 what an odd statement. Would you also say it was "just as much his medical treatment as his wife's" if she was having chemotherapy rather than IVF?

You don't actually know WHY they are having IVF.

He may have needed additional appointments.

It might not just be IVF. We had ICSI but I'm sure there are more treatments now - just bracketed under IVF for ease of reference m.

Either beyond your business need, it's none of your business.

I can't believe the replies. He isn't doing the job he is paid to do. He is taking the fucking piss. If he goes to the appointments he needs to make up the time. I've known lots of women who have manged to do both and they were the ones having the treatment.

Well no because they are both having IVF... its joint treatment! If she had cancer then just she would have cancer... I don't understand your point there at all
Do you show this much compassion in your personal life?

Also as PP have said, it's not always just a case of the woman needs all the treatment. Some IVF is because of male factor and involves a lot more appointments and investigations than what some people are suggesting.

[quote TheOccupier]@Lily2075 what an odd statement. Would you also say it was "just as much his medical treatment as his wife's" if she was having chemotherapy rather than IVF?[/quote]
Oh my god, OP, read that back. He is the father of the child, it's not even close to being the same thing as his partner having cancer. Christ, you are so lacking in basic compassion and understanding here.

My DH didn't come to most of my ivf treatments, it was difficult enough for me to get that much time off work.
But each individual is different and this has been signed off by someone with more knowledge of what is going on than you have.

@StepAwayFromGoogling right?? How is that comparable

So do you think men participating in an ivf cycle experience the same risk as their female partners? . Have you had ivf yourself? Do you ask your female patients if they feel that it’s just as much his treatment as hers or have you just decided that sounds “nice”?

He’s doing it because he’s clearly getting away with it. Not to do a weekly visit for two months would be gross misconduct where I work. How does he expect to provide for a family if he has that work ethic.

I've had ICSI - and miscarriages folllowing ICSI. And a lovely dash to hospital after I reacted to the medication. Is my opinion allowed?

The work needs to be addressed with agency.

The reason for his absence - not the Op's concern and certainly unnecessary for her (or anyone else) to pass judgment.

People shouldn’t assume that single women having fertility treatment ‘by choice’ haven’t also had years of heartache before getting to that point. Some have had fertility problems during a relationship and the relationship has gone on to breakdown. Some have had years of fertility treatment, failed cycles and/or miscarriages all by themselves and still no baby. Some have had to come to terms with time running out, not meeting the right person and realising their only choice is to do it alone or never be a mum at all.

I’m not saying the father shouldn’t be there because single women able to do it on their own. But there shouldn’t be an assumption that they are fertile, skipping into the clinic, happily not needing anyone and that they are ok compared to couples. Most go through a pretty emotional and daunting time too and some without any support.

The IVF is a red herring (although I think it's great that he's going to all the appointments).

As you're not his employer I'm not sure you can dictate where he works from or the hours he works - isn't that an issue for his agency? The main problem here seems to be the agency not communicating effectively with you about this.

If there are performance issues you're well within your rights to ask the agency to replace him or supplement him with another worker.

You mention in a follow up that he's not cheap, but presumably you're only being charged for the hours he works? But if he's not performing the specific tasks and visits you're paying for then the agency needs to provide someone else who can.

YABU, and very insensitive.

You are being very insensitive. There is generally a huge emotional and mental toll on anyone (including couples- including the male/ partner/ husband/father) who undertakes IVF.

If you are not happy with his performance, speak to him or his agency.

Not your problem clearly- but there may be a lot more going on for him than you realise.

[quote TheOccupier]@Lily2075 what an odd statement. Would you also say it was "just as much his medical treatment as his wife's" if she was having chemotherapy rather than IVF?[/quote]
Wow your ignorance. astounding. Maybe you should come back to this thread after educating yourself about IVF instead of making stupid inane statements like the above.

Oh and YABU for many many reasons.

It honestly sounds like he's using it as an excuse and taking the p**s Tbh. I've been through IVF, yes it's a hard process but it doesn't actually take that long or involve too many appointments, it didn't really impact on either of our jobs that much. We took holiday for appointments, he came to all of them I think but it's not that many per run. I took a couple days sick, both continued to work from the office. My DH was doing all my daily injections but you do them around work.