Rishi and his wife

[eerk]

AIBU to ask

1. What is wrong with him having a green card if this is not breaking any rules?

2. What is wrong with his wife only paying UK tax on UK income if this is within the rules?

I assume what they are doing is no different to what anyone else is likely to do in their situation.

Isn't it the rules the need to change rather than their actions?

jwg1 I’d laugh at that usually, but it’s just too sad, what a bunch we have in power, however low there’s always even lower they can go.

@awaynboilyurheid

jwg1 I’d laugh at that usually, but it’s just too sad, what a bunch we have in power, however low there’s always even lower they can go.

I mean surely everyone can afford to go and eat out in restaurants regularly, especially when the genius Rishi the benevolent is paying half.

@Tuesdaylast

I’m in two minds about the choices Aksharta Murphy has made but also a bit surprised at how confusing the reporting has been of the actual facts. Basically:

1. Non-dom status is not a matter of choice but of fact. The law says AM is non-dom unless she plans to make the UK her home till the day she dies. I doubt she plans to do that. Domicile also affects more than tax - it covers inheritance rights and bits of family law for example. It is exceedingly difficult legally to lose your domicile. The the UK sometimes benefits from this - for example where UK people live abroad for decades but their worldwide estates are still subject to UK inheritance tax.
2. Tax residence is also a matter of fact. There is a statutory test for it. AM is clearly UK resident and she’s never said she isn’t. As she is UK resident, she is covered by UK tax rules.
3. As a UK resident non domiciled person, she has the right to claim the remittance basis of taxation, which means that she pays tax on UK income and on foreign income she remits to the UK but not on foreign income she does not remit. That is where the element of choice comes in. AM chose to claim the remittance basis but she didn’t have to.
4. Once she has been resident in the UK for 7 years she has to pay £30k, riding to £60k later, on top of tax to claim the remittance basis of taxation.
5. Once she has been UK resident for 15 out of the last 20 years, she is treated as UK domiciled for UK tax purposes and cannot claim the remittance basis - she’s taxed on her worldwide income, subject to any tax treaties, while she is UK tax resident.

This isn’t a loophole, which is a mistake in tax legislation that leaves a gap. As far as I know, it’s designed to encourage rich or entrepreneurial people to come to the UK. The Labour government looked at it and left it in place in around 2008 and the 15 year rule was introduced in 2017.

At last somebody has posted the correct information. I wanted to read the whole thread prior to doing the same and you have saved me the trouble so thank you.

Just to repeat - this is the most accurate explanation I have seen.

@Clavinova

What would be the purpose of having a Green Card if one did not intend to live in the US?

What would be the purpose of EU settled status if one does not intend to live in the UK?

Politics is a precarious profession, MPs lose their seats, ministers are reshuffled and governments lose elections - it's not so attractive sitting on the opposition benches.

There's a little problem with having a Green Card as your retirement option if you hold a post in government. Namely that being a member of a foreign government disqualifies you from having a Green Card. Given the need to lead by example, you have to wonder why Sunak didn't give his up way back when he was first appointed go a government post.

Well, I suppose he's doing something for Yorkshire builders - www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-58345526

The legality is immaterial because this was always a political problem - and the Sunaks clearly recognised it as one as they backtracked. Boris wins this round.

[quote Nennypops]@Clavinova, aren't you confused defending Sunak when It is your hero Johnson briefing against him?[/quote]
Careful now

[quote ShouldersBackChestOutChinUp]US journalist inquiring about green card issue.

Why aren't our journalists like this?

twitter.com/ukiswitheu/status/1512524270588547074?s=21&t=0je_KdNXjynGwBrCegtccw[/quote]
Now that is very interesting indeed.

Just how many rules have RS and AM been breaking - and who knew?

[quote Nennypops]Well, I suppose he's doing something for Yorkshire builders - www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-58345526[/quote]
I expect he will pay cash in hand to avoid paying tax.

The issue is really that when you hold a senior political post, and when you aspire to be Prime Minister, just complying with the letter of the law isn't enough. You have to show some acknowledgment that the pubic interest comes above your personal interests - and he has done the absolute opposite. Sunak had a moral choice; shall I do what is ethical, or shall I do what is legal? And he and his wife apparently thought "Nah, if we go for the ethical choice, we have to pay millions of pounds into the British economy, fuck that".

Admittedly, he was appointed by a person who has no interest in moral choices or ethics either, but then he enthusiastically supported Johnson's candidature, so that's not an argument that helps him, either.

There's a little problem with having a Green Card as your retirement option if you hold a post in government

Indeed. He became an MP in 2015, and was appointed by Theresa May as a government minister in January 2018, prior to going to the Treasury and becoming Chancellor under Johnson.

He shouldn't have held onto that Green Card for all those years. It was incumbent upon him to hand it back in January 2018 at the very latest - and he chose not to.

How interesting.

@Nennypops

The issue is really that when you hold a senior political post, and when you aspire to be Prime Minister, just complying with the letter of the law isn't enough. You have to show some acknowledgment that the pubic interest comes above your personal interests - and he has done the absolute opposite. Sunak had a moral choice; shall I do what is ethical, or shall I do what is legal? And he and his wife apparently thought "Nah, if we go for the ethical choice, we have to pay millions of pounds into the British economy, fuck that".

Admittedly, he was appointed by a person who has no interest in moral choices or ethics either, but then he enthusiastically supported Johnson's candidature, so that's not an argument that helps him, either.

Totally agree.

Nothing at all to do with Rishi’s wife’s ethnicity or gender - anyone choosing to go into public office must surely be aware that your whole family becomes a subject of public scrutiny. It might be grossly unfair, but that’s the price you pay for reaching great heights. The media will always exploit every perceived transgression. Wives/husbands/children just become an extension of a politician, and are judged as such.

@Clavinova

On what basis did Sunak qualify for a Green Card?

I'm not sure - several newspapers report that he worked in the US. Otherwise, he did win a Fulbright scholarship to Stanford and he has property there.

Extraordinary that someone who does as much internet research as you do is not well aware that none of those things qualify you for a Green Card unless you intend to be a permanent US resident.

As a private citizen, I don’t think it’s unethical for her to arrange her taxes in the way permitted by the law. As discussed previously Non Dom tax policy and the remittance based charge is deliberate, not an accidental loophole.

I do believe it is unethical for the Chancellor to

1. not disclose that he is benefitting from these laws, given the huge figures involved (far more for instance than his salary).

2. not disclose that his family have officially stated (green card, wife’s non Dom status) that they see their long term future outside the U.K.

I’m very offended that he has compared his situation to Will Smith’s given that he is quite happy to tax/calculate benefits for other people on the basis of household income.

I’m also offended that their initial reaction was to talk about his wife’s nationality, which suggests contempt for the intelligence of the general public.

Just how many rules have RS and AM been breaking - and who knew?

They all knew and they are all equally culpable because they are all up to their necks in it. This goes to the heart of Johnsons government, they all play the system for their own personal financial benefit which they see as their absolute right to do. There is a breathtaking sense of entitlement here. It is only when one of them feels that their position is threatened that stories like this are actively leaked by a rival. Are we really to believe that Johnson has only just become aware of his Chancellor's wife tax situation and the Green Card? Johnson did know but didn't address it and he is equally culpable.

@SleeplessInEngland

The legality is immaterial because this was always a political problem - and the Sunaks clearly recognised it as one as they backtracked. Boris wins this round.

But it’s a dangerous game to play, because of the number of high net worth party supporters who will have similar arrangements.

I'm not sure about the green card issue. His wife isn't breaking any laws, but surely if you're in the public eye like that you need act with integrity. People were bound to find out eventually.

@nattichix

It's just racism if you ask me. They're just out to get him / them.

There are taxation rulers that we all abide by. Are the rules, you need to pay the highest tax that you possibly can ? No. Most people have accountants that make sure they don't overpay or underpay- within the rules.

So if I engage an accountant to make sure I don't overpay or underpay, does that also make me immoral ? Because I didn't pay the absolute maximum that HMRC may have asked from me in error ?

You can't have one rule for them and another rule for us.

If we don't like the non dom rules, that's something different that we need to campaign against. I believe in 2017 it was made much more difficult to be a non dom already. But if they haven't broken any laws, leave them alone.

Just to check, you do know he is Chancellor of the Exchequer don’t you?

Do you know what that job involves?

@SpinningTheSeedsOfLove

There's a little problem with having a Green Card as your retirement option if you hold a post in government

Indeed. He became an MP in 2015, and was appointed by Theresa May as a government minister in January 2018, prior to going to the Treasury and becoming Chancellor under Johnson.

He shouldn't have held onto that Green Card for all those years. It was incumbent upon him to hand it back in January 2018 at the very latest - and he chose not to.

How interesting.

I'm guessing he won't be contesting his seat in the next general election, shame that the good people of Richmond won't have a chance to have their say on his behaviour.

@SilverGlitterBaubles, and then my mind wanders to whether Theresa May knew, and whether she will have an opinion on the Green Card matter given that she first appointed Rishi Sunak to government ...

And if Johnson knows that RS and AM were hanging onto their Green Cards, then did Dominic Cummings and Allegra Stratton know? How much did Russian intelligence know about this? And what else have they got on the holders of our Great Offices of State?

As I say, it's just my mind wandering ...

@SilverGlitterBaubles

Just how many rules have RS and AM been breaking - and who knew?

They all knew and they are all equally culpable because they are all up to their necks in it. This goes to the heart of Johnsons government, they all play the system for their own personal financial benefit which they see as their absolute right to do. There is a breathtaking sense of entitlement here. It is only when one of them feels that their position is threatened that stories like this are actively leaked by a rival. Are we really to believe that Johnson has only just become aware of his Chancellor's wife tax situation and the Green Card? Johnson did know but didn't address it and he is equally culpable.

Actually it is perfectly plausible that Johnson did not know. He did not know for example that he had been to parties that broke the law.
He did not know even though it was in every newspaper that illegal parties had taken place in his house and office. Johnson as we have been told before is only responsible for watering the pot plants and as a paid entertainer at parties in Number 10.

@Cheesechips

I'm not sure about the green card issue. His wife isn't breaking any laws, but surely if you're in the public eye like that you need act with integrity. People were bound to find out eventually.

If you are high up in the Tory party there is absolutely no requirement to act with integrity. In fact integrity left about the same time as Rory Stewart and Kenneth Clarke.

As with much in politics, the original error could have been survivable; but the cover-up isn't.

Just to check, you do know he is Chancellor of the Exchequer don’t you?

Do you know what that job involves?*

He is the country's accountant. Since he is expert in avoiding paying taxes he is ideally qualified for the job.

I wonder why Rishi wanted to leave the EU 🤔

I'm sure it was for the best interests of the country and not to avoid the imposition of laws to stop these tax loopholes 🤔