Christian MIL taking DC to Christian toddler group - I was unaware

[AtheistMama]

Name change for this one.

My MIL does childcare once a week for DS aged 3, for which I am grateful for - they have a great relationship, and obviously it saves us money on nursery fees.

My MIL is a lovely women, not a bad bone in her body. She is also devoutly Christian, belonging to an evangelical church. DH was brought up as an evangelical Christian, but is an atheist and slowly detached himself from their church in his young adulthood. There is no animosity from his mother and the wider family about this (who are mostly also evangelical Christians).

DH and I have been together for 10 years, married for 5, but I have never really talked to MIL about my religious beliefs because she is quite sensitive/easily upset and I didn't want to offend her. The status quo has just been that it is obvious to all that DH and I are not Christian and it's been left at that.

My understanding of DH's families beliefs is that they think everyone who is not baptised is going to Hell; they also do not approve of homosexuality or gay marriage, sex before marriage, etc. I am an atheist and do not subscribe to these beliefs. In particular, the idea that they believe that I am going to Hell bothers me when I think about it. In general, I am anti-organised religion and was never going to bring DS up in any religious way.

MIL takes DS to a toddler's group at her church every week, but I was under the impression that it was open to the whole community and therefore not Christian (I think this came from DH not my MIL). I looked up the group today (was wondering about the timings for a seperate reason), and clocked that they have a Bible story every week.

I'm feeling a bit annoyed because if I had known about the Bible story bit when it was first suggested that she take him (years ago), I would have gently asked her to pick another activity. But now he's been going for a few years, he loves it and it's part of their routine. She would probably be upset by being asked to stop going (and probably it didn't occur to her that I wouldn't be happy about it).

However, I feel really uncomfortable about the Bible story, and annoyed that she didn't say anything at the start. Needless to say, DS has never mentioned it, so it's possible that he's running around the hall and not even listening to it.

DH tends to skirt around issues with his DM that might be upsetting because he thinks she's quite delicate and feels protective about her.

AIBU to bring it up with her now?

It's quite helpful to learn about Christianity especially when later on learning about British history

Is it partly that you feel mil has gone against your wishes?

@Just10moreminutesplease

Bible stories wouldn’t bother me but if there was the slightest hint of homophobia from your MIL I’d seriously consider what kind of relationship you want her to have with your son.

Even if you ignore that he might pick up these views, what would happen if your son came out as gay in the future? Would DH’s family still love and support him?

This. I'd worry less about Christianity and Bible stories and more about the homophobia tbh.

It's harmless and I'd just be grateful your mil and ds have a lovely time together.
What are you going to do when he goes to school and the first Christmas he comes home singing "away in a manger"

Don’t worry about the Bible stories … isn’t religion on the National Curriculum anyway? Knowing the basics comes in handy across subjects, especially the popular ones the Old Testament - just part of a rounded education.
And, remember, you can find The Bible in the library in the Fiction section ….

I'm an atheist and my DGM used to take me to her church on sunday evening song. I used to go to be with her.

My DS is an atheist and he was at a catholic primary school.

I think it is what happens at home that is the influence.

I dont think it's doing any harm.

My kids are at an inner city nursery where they hear stories from all the faiths and do week activities around the major celebrations. This week they have been learning about Ramadan and Easter. They haven’t asked to convert yet. Though they are a bit sad that the muslim kids get two sets of Eid gifts.

@Ponderingwindow

You have been incredibly naive. These community playgroups are always a form of evangelism. The messaging may be relatively simple, but that is part of the point. Religious entities host these community events to get people in the door and start the indoctrination.

Well, it clearly worked on the son didn't it

Lots of toddler groups are held in church halls and so have a religious element. It's mostly harmless, I've no problem with a bible story.

Are there any free non church run toddler groups? All the free/cheap ones round here are church run. When I went with DD they were trying to convert me not her (and it was otherwise a great group - lots of experienced older mums from the church happy to make you cups of tea and bounce your baby while you had a rest). I did one council run group and there was no tea (h and a risk) few toys(h and a risk) and the facilitator wouldn’t touch kids or give advice (child protection) so was a bit useless. Once a week at this age isn’t going to convert him - more worrying would be Sunday school/bible camp when he’s a bit older!

My MIL bought my daughter a bible - we used it as an opportunity to talk about religions, whether it was all just stories and how people view the answer to this differently. My daughter then met the local vicar at her secular school and has declared herself a Christian (she’s 5). I’m super cool with whatever - it’s all an opportunity for a conversation about beliefs. That can only be a good thing.

That is a very very different scenario from the one that Evangelical Christianity offers - that of accepting Jesus into your heart as your Saviour or else face eternity burning in hell! Declaring oneself a Christian at 5 because of conversations is different from being "saved" out of fear of hell.

I think you’re reading too much into it. It’s just a story not an indoctrination into the church

Bible stories are part of the curriculum at Primary School so he will be hearing them there. I am not referring to C of E or Catholic schools but ordinary Local Authority schools. They learn about Noah, Moses and David and later about Easter and the disciples, miracles and Christmas. Other religions and festivals. Assemblies and Hymn practice.

So I wouldn’t say anything to her she is looking after your child and taking him to a group he loves. I am sure it will be open to the community as most church playgroups are.

I'm an atheist and I take my children to a "christian" toddler group, at a church, where they read bible stories and sometimes do bible-related crafts e.g. stickers of the nativity scene. It doesn't bother me, they're just stories. My daughter doesn't think supertato or the gruffalo or peppa pig are real because she has read stories about them; same goes for Jesus.

That is a very very different scenario from the one that Evangelical Christianity offers - that of accepting Jesus into your heart as your Saviour or else face eternity burning in hell! Declaring oneself a Christian at 5 because of conversations is different from being "saved" out of fear of hell
I doubt they mention burning in hell at the toddler group

I'd worry less about Christianity and Bible stories and more about the homophobia tbh.

The homophobia IS the Christianity and the Bible according to Evangelical Christianity. They aren't separate- that's why the particular Bible stories won't be benign, they will be told as literal.

I'm skiving work as it is, and DS is about to arrive home - otherwise there are loads of comments I'd like to reply directly to, so will fill in below with few comments that come to mind.

Yes, my MIL does hold some beliefs that I do not agree with but to give her her dues, she does not force them on anyone and does not evangelicise (ditto for most of the wider family). I stand by my statement that she is a lovely women without a bad bone in her body - I think she takes the tack of being sad about non-believers/gays/unmarried partners going to hell and praying for them, coming from a place of compassion/kindness, rather than condemning them. I don't believe she would ever cut anyone out of her life for something like being gay.

I have a gay sister in a same sex relationship with a child, a Jewish mother and step-father, and a Malaysian Hindu sister-in-law, so DS is exposed to diversity even within my family. I have no problems with him learning about religions in general but there is a difference as to being taught about Christian values in school than being told them by a fervent believer.

However, I take the points about it only being once a week and will think about how to address any discussions that might come up in the future about potentially contentious issues.

My sister in law is an atheist. She still felt it necessary for her children to experience a wide range of beliefs so they could come to their own conclusion.

It's used to make me smile when she took them to church.

Good for her though, she's raised well balanced critical thinkers that have a wide range of life experiences to draw upon.

I think she's fab.

So maybe your mother in law is helping with the balance of life.

I'm a staunch atheist and wouldn't be particularly bothered tbh. As other posters have said, a bible story will seem like any other fictional story to a toddler. I sent my dc to a CofE primary school (because it's our village school). They loved the school but never believed a word of the (infrequent and fairly half-hearted) religious stuff. Don't worry, your child won't catch religion. You will be a much bigger influence on their beliefs than a bible story once a week!

This is a lovely thing your MIL does for you, and will do your DS no harm whatsoever.
I'm atheist myself and took my DC to our local Methodist toddler group... they had amazing homemade cakes, loads of lovely helpers and lots of good toys that were always spotlessly clean!
The stories were just fun, and the prayer and "amen" just goes over their heads at that age.

In any case, it's good for a child to have all sorts of different experiences, and to get input from people with different approaches and ideas.

I also wouldn't be worried about the bible stories. My Nan who is NOT religious says you could do worse than living your life by the 10 commandments, and she's probably right.

I went to CofE school. I'm not remotely religious. My kids went to CofE they are not religious.

Like a PP my concerns would be about ensuring DC learn about tolerance of others beliefs/feelings/etc.

@Ponderingwindow

You have been incredibly naive. These community playgroups are always a form of evangelism. The messaging may be relatively simple, but that is part of the point. Religious entities host these community events to get people in the door and start the indoctrination.

Utter nonsense. I went to a church nursery church school, Sunday school, church brownies etc. My parents didn't take me to the Sunday school, and were not in the slightest bit religious. I went to a local comprehensive, left guides, stopped Sunday school when I got older and wanted to play out with friends. It certainly didn't indoctrinate me to the religion. It was just social life as a child. As an adult the only time I go to church is weddings and funerals.

I’m just in awe of all of you who worry about what your toddlers would hear.

None of mine would entertain sitting and listening to any story or bible song. To interested in hurtling around the church hall creating chaos.

This morning my 20 month old was more
conceded with try to break her legs trying to climb and jump off stacks of chairs.

I've taken my children to a few church run playgroups, the most religious thing at any of them is that they end with a little prayer, that's at a Methodist church, most its literally a playgroup with normal activities. The babies/toddlers don't actually notice the prayer, much like a small child wouldn't know a story was a bible story. They aren't going to try and recruite your child like it's a cult! I actually think the people at church run groups are just lovely generous people, they are usually retired and just want to give something back to the community, it isn't a recruitment drive. I think you need to chillout about it, you won't be raising your child to be religious and your mil knows this, she just takes him as she knows the people who run it rather than converting him.

I’m atheist but took my baby to ALL the toddler grouos and about 90% were run by churches (sich lovely people!) in the 30 grouos I tried only two made me uncomfortable with what they were teaching, the others had religion as a vague background ‘story’ thing.

Maybe go to the group sometime to check itnout if you’re able?

I wouldn’t end an activity both the toddler and MIL enjoy, no. When he’s older you cane explain to your chikd “that’s not what we believe” this tends to happen naturally as child gets older, but playgroup age should be fine.

Dependant on whether it is the old, or New Testament, I think you may find these stories have their basis in Judaism and other religions and are only Christian insofar as the translation would have a Christian bias - so does Christmas and Easter.