Christian MIL taking DC to Christian toddler group - I was unaware

[AtheistMama]

Name change for this one.

My MIL does childcare once a week for DS aged 3, for which I am grateful for - they have a great relationship, and obviously it saves us money on nursery fees.

My MIL is a lovely women, not a bad bone in her body. She is also devoutly Christian, belonging to an evangelical church. DH was brought up as an evangelical Christian, but is an atheist and slowly detached himself from their church in his young adulthood. There is no animosity from his mother and the wider family about this (who are mostly also evangelical Christians).

DH and I have been together for 10 years, married for 5, but I have never really talked to MIL about my religious beliefs because she is quite sensitive/easily upset and I didn't want to offend her. The status quo has just been that it is obvious to all that DH and I are not Christian and it's been left at that.

My understanding of DH's families beliefs is that they think everyone who is not baptised is going to Hell; they also do not approve of homosexuality or gay marriage, sex before marriage, etc. I am an atheist and do not subscribe to these beliefs. In particular, the idea that they believe that I am going to Hell bothers me when I think about it. In general, I am anti-organised religion and was never going to bring DS up in any religious way.

MIL takes DS to a toddler's group at her church every week, but I was under the impression that it was open to the whole community and therefore not Christian (I think this came from DH not my MIL). I looked up the group today (was wondering about the timings for a seperate reason), and clocked that they have a Bible story every week.

I'm feeling a bit annoyed because if I had known about the Bible story bit when it was first suggested that she take him (years ago), I would have gently asked her to pick another activity. But now he's been going for a few years, he loves it and it's part of their routine. She would probably be upset by being asked to stop going (and probably it didn't occur to her that I wouldn't be happy about it).

However, I feel really uncomfortable about the Bible story, and annoyed that she didn't say anything at the start. Needless to say, DS has never mentioned it, so it's possible that he's running around the hall and not even listening to it.

DH tends to skirt around issues with his DM that might be upsetting because he thinks she's quite delicate and feels protective about her.

AIBU to bring it up with her now?

@Littlemissprosecco

But your toddler will go to school soon and that will naturally be the end of it, I wouldn’t worry or rock the boat.

As part of the RE curriculum children will look at Bible stories!!

I'd give your MIL the benefit of the doubt here. I'm absolutely NOT a Christian but certainly, the local evangelical church run by far the best toddler group in town. Friendly people, lots to do, great refreshments! My dgc regularly attended and there really was no indoctrination. Sure, there was a Bible story but as someone has said, it was no more a work of reality than the Gruffalo and the dgcs certainly didn't come home 'saved'.

Many Evangelical churches spend a significant amount of money and time on programs that indoctrinate children in the teachings of the Bible. church workers warn children of the dangers of sin, the need of salvation, the wonders of heaven, and the horrors of Hell. These methods result in numerous children and teenagers getting “saved.”

Remember the evangelical Christian belief is that a child will be going to hell until the child makes the choice to be saved, this is often done around the age of 5 years, sometimes earlier, sometimes later. But the pressure is on to get children "saved" by professing Jesus as their saviour.

In my experience the majority of good free toddler groups are run by churches usually with some kind of Christian element like songs or bible stories.

I do think it’s a bit harsh to say to your mil who is providing child care and presumably enjoying going to a group at her church where I would imagine she knows people that she can’t go anymore. Your child will most likely be the most influenced by you rather than by hearing the occasional bible story. Maybe it’s worth thinking ahead though because this is likely to come up again and your son will ask questions. How will you respond to questions about his grandmas faith in a way that respects her but also explains your POV. We can’t shelter children from opinions different to our own so it’s worth thinking about how to have healthy conversations

The point of fundamentalism is that indoctrination begins at a very early age and pervades all aspects of life, including play, music, stories, etc. I am surprise at how many are unaware of the dangers of Christian fundamentalism

OP’s bloke turned out all right, didn’t he? Why’s his child in any greater danger?

The Bible story part of the session is probably only about fifteen minutes and the rest of the session is playing/craft. I wouldn't worry about it if I was you. If your DS is understanding the story, he'll probably be taking from it the lesson/moral it teaches, e.g. being kind, thinking of others etc.

Like with an activity playgroups can differ widely. Can you take a few hours off and ask to go too. Simply say to the MIL that your little onrle chatters about it and you would love to met people he talks about, get contacts for birthday party or anything innocent. Then see for yourself.
Have the conversation based on concerned observation not speculation.

Let your child make up their own mind about religion. Toddler groups may familiarise the children with some of the bible stories but they generally don't push an agenda. There's nothing wrong with letting your children know that other people believe in different things, other Gods and some people believe in none. Your DH made up his own mind after all.

They'll hear lots of bible stories at school. I wouldn't worry.

He probably won't even remember going to the group by the time he starts school. My DC went to a CofE school (as I did) as it was the village school in our rural area. They're now teenagers and not remotely religious.

I grew up in an evangelical church. As a teenager I was quite involved, helping out at toddler groups, after school club, homeless outreach, etc. While all of these things are providing a service, the main aim was always evangelising.

However with toddler group I’d say it’s mainly the parents/carers they’re trying to evangelise to. A Bible story a week won’t make a 3 year old become a Christian, so I’d probably not have too many worries about the toddler group. Despite being an atheist now, I took DS to a toddler group in a (liberal, non-evangelical) church when he was a baby.

However I’d probably avoid MIL looking after him when he’s older if she’s likely to take him to church events. Even at primary school age I was taught a lot of sexist and homophobic things at evangelical children’s events.

Just sign him up for a different activity on that morning and they will switch without you having to upset her or comment. Ds won’t notice if you choose something he likes (swimming lessons? Soft play?). Bible stories wouldn’t bother me but the homophobia and hell stuff would.

The point of fundamentalism is that indoctrination begins at a very early age and pervades all aspects of life, including play, music, stories, etc. I am surprise at how many are unaware of the dangers of Christian fundamentalism I went to a boarding school where essentially everyone was a fundamental Christian so was exposed t it 24/7. Guess what, I’m an atheist.

Just because people are exposed to religion doesn’t mean they’re going to stick with it.

Reality is that the OP’s ds may become religious, or may not. Not every person who finds a faith has been indoctrinated. interestingly there’s as much a thing as fundamental atheism as there is fundamental Christianity.

@Ponderingwindow

You have been incredibly naive. These community playgroups are always a form of evangelism. The messaging may be relatively simple, but that is part of the point. Religious entities host these community events to get people in the door and start the indoctrination.

What?!!

I’m on my third child, I have been to an insane number of playgroups over the years, most of them in churches.

Some bible stories at some - but they were toddlers, it was in one ear and out the other.

19 years in and no one has been indoctrinated into anything.

I went to a CofE primary school, bible studies each morning, hymns, Sunday school and choir practice. Neither of my parents were religious and none of the school stuff rubbed off on me at all. I was never and am still not interested in that way of life. He'll be fine, perhaps keep MIL in check as he gets older though.

OP’s bloke turned out all right, didn’t he? Why’s his child in any greater danger?

I don't know about the OP's husband. Sometimes when fundamentalism is so counter-cultural it can be easier to move away from as an adult because the contrast to wider society is so stark.

My point is that the OP should make an informed decision, not one based on the idea of benign Bible stories. Her child is a place that has an agenda to recruit and indoctrinate people and their beliefs are overtly homophobic, sexist and other all of society who aren't saved by the blood of Jesus. Is this a benign theology? Is this somewhere you'd want your child? It's up to her but don't make it like it's just a typical Christian group because by her own admission it isn't.

However I’d probably avoid MIL looking after him when he’s older if she’s likely to take him to church events. Even at primary school age I was taught a lot of sexist and homophobic things at evangelical children’s events. not to mention other scary shit.

We were told about revelations, the second coming, the rapture and so on.

Big morals are pretty universal - I wouldn’t stress.

Bible stories wouldn’t bother me but if there was the slightest hint of homophobia from your MIL I’d seriously consider what kind of relationship you want her to have with your son.

Even if you ignore that he might pick up these views, what would happen if your son came out as gay in the future? Would DH’s family still love and support him?

Reality is that the OP’s ds may become religious, or may not. Not every person who finds a faith has been indoctrinated. interestingly there’s as much a thing as fundamental atheism as there is fundamental Christianity.

I am not anti-religion, and I agree that there are all types of atheism, even fundamental atheism. The point is to make an informed decision about what you are exposing your child to. Stories about hell as a literal place for eternity can be frightening for a child. Songs about fighting battles against Evil, about the necessity of salvation or damnation are what would be potentially on offer here.

It would be a non-issue to me - church toddler groups are everywhere and usually great. Think of it as an opportunity not a threat. My husband and I are agnostic atheists. My MIL bought my daughter a bible - we used it as an opportunity to talk about religions, whether it was all just stories and how people view the answer to this differently. My daughter then met the local vicar at her secular school and has declared herself a Christian (she’s 5). I’m super cool with whatever - it’s all an opportunity for a conversation about beliefs. That can only be a good thing.

I know many non religious mums that take their children to a Christian toddler group. I think it’s more important that they just get to socialise and have fun.

I don't really see the need to mention the religion. Just say religious mil takes child to her religious group. All religions could be seen as scary to a child.

I don't think you need to worry at all - it's how you raise him that will be the biggest influence, not some playgroup when he was little.

I did lots of religious stuff as a child - Girls' Brigade which came with compulsory Sunday School plus some kind of Christian residential holiday when I was a young teen. Throughout all this, it was all just stories to me because that's how I was raised at home. At no point did I ever actually believe it

Every single playgroup is at a church near here. He only 3 it honestly not matter. Yabu.