Christian MIL taking DC to Christian toddler group - I was unaware

[AtheistMama]

Name change for this one.

My MIL does childcare once a week for DS aged 3, for which I am grateful for - they have a great relationship, and obviously it saves us money on nursery fees.

My MIL is a lovely women, not a bad bone in her body. She is also devoutly Christian, belonging to an evangelical church. DH was brought up as an evangelical Christian, but is an atheist and slowly detached himself from their church in his young adulthood. There is no animosity from his mother and the wider family about this (who are mostly also evangelical Christians).

DH and I have been together for 10 years, married for 5, but I have never really talked to MIL about my religious beliefs because she is quite sensitive/easily upset and I didn't want to offend her. The status quo has just been that it is obvious to all that DH and I are not Christian and it's been left at that.

My understanding of DH's families beliefs is that they think everyone who is not baptised is going to Hell; they also do not approve of homosexuality or gay marriage, sex before marriage, etc. I am an atheist and do not subscribe to these beliefs. In particular, the idea that they believe that I am going to Hell bothers me when I think about it. In general, I am anti-organised religion and was never going to bring DS up in any religious way.

MIL takes DS to a toddler's group at her church every week, but I was under the impression that it was open to the whole community and therefore not Christian (I think this came from DH not my MIL). I looked up the group today (was wondering about the timings for a seperate reason), and clocked that they have a Bible story every week.

I'm feeling a bit annoyed because if I had known about the Bible story bit when it was first suggested that she take him (years ago), I would have gently asked her to pick another activity. But now he's been going for a few years, he loves it and it's part of their routine. She would probably be upset by being asked to stop going (and probably it didn't occur to her that I wouldn't be happy about it).

However, I feel really uncomfortable about the Bible story, and annoyed that she didn't say anything at the start. Needless to say, DS has never mentioned it, so it's possible that he's running around the hall and not even listening to it.

DH tends to skirt around issues with his DM that might be upsetting because he thinks she's quite delicate and feels protective about her.

AIBU to bring it up with her now?

[quote ldontWanna]@DietrichandDiMaggio actually in a lot of schools Christianity is taught as fact, very few teachers use "Christians/some people believe" and the Christmas and Easter story are repeated every single year with Jesus did,Jesus said, even the timeline of Jesus' life(which is highly debatable). Other religions are taught with "x believe/some people believe" however. This really pisses me off as it's not consistent, and it automatically form a hierarchy of beliefs.[/quote]
Well the RE curriculum shouldn't be taught like that. I'd be interested to know how those teachers deliver their lessons about other religions; do they manage to use "Hindus believe...."? I can't imagine any of the teachers I work with teaching any religion as fact, although it would be acceptable to say "As a Christian/Muslim/Hindu etc I believe .....". Children who are part of the religion we are studying are usually invited to share information with their classmates too.

Obviously I know that in a religious e.g. Catholic school, religious beliefs will be stated as fact, but presumably the OP will choose a school for her son that doesn't have a religious focus.

Many bible stories are IMO part of general knowledge - the loaves and fishes, the Good Samaritan, etc.
I’m not at all religious but I really don’t think those do any harm. Like it or not, the Christian religion is woven into European history, and into the very landscape - church spires, etc.

However I’d certainly have an issue with any child being told that they’ll go to hell if they’re not baptised, or anything else likely to frighten them. I would fervently hope that nothing of the sort is ever told to a 3 year old.

He is 3 so will remember none of it and the bible story they have once a week is highly likely to be something which is part of the UK's cultural heritage and pretty nice - like be kind to others. I doubt it will be about gays being thrown from burning buildings.

I doubt it will do the 3 year old any harm.

@twentythreehundred

If you judge me because of the Catholic's church stance on any of those things, that's your own limitations and ignorance,not mine.

idontwanna I am not sure I follow what you are referring to here? How could I judge your life based on a MN thread? Did I? I may have.

Sorry,probably wasn't clear. I was just using myself as an example to say that just because someone subscribes to a religion or even preaches it (like your friend and even OP's MIL despite her views on homosexuality and so on)doesn't necessarily mean that they are the worst of what that religion has to offer.

You actually sounded quite disappointed in your friend after reading the stuff I posted, which wasn't my intention. Was just trying to show you that most religions are the same ,despite how prettily they might wrap their message so it was a bit hypocritical to latch onto the evangelical part when there are plenty others that sing from the same hymn(pardon the pun) , just in a slightly more socially acceptable way.

But once again, the issue is with the organised religions themselves, not necessarily the individual followers.

I wouldn’t worry. I’m not religious but go to a church toddler group with my DC. My 6year has also learned a few of the bible stories at school aswell as stories from other religions when looking at different religious celebrations. I assume it’s party of the curriculum. I think it’s good for them to be taught about and understand lots of religions and their beliefs. A bible story at age 3 at a playgroup won’t be indoctrinating them!

I was about twenty-five before I worked out why, during my childhood, my mum and dad had insisted on me taking my ever-increasing number of younger siblings to Sunday School every week.

@twentythreehundred apologies again. I seem to have rambled on and probably confused you even more.

What’s the difference to your child hearing a bible story to any other story? I don’t believe in religion either so won’t make any difference to me what stories are being read in a baby group.

I don’t know why you’re so bothered about it when your son doesn’t mention it and you don’t mind her taking him, you knew it was a religious group before, why the shock about the stories?
They’re stories same as any other to me, I know people believe it but people believe in witches or Harry Potter and other strange stuff, don’t stress about it he will be at school soon enough.

Listening to a bible story will not harm him. Even when he goes to school, he will learn 'about' religions. Knowing about the bible is a good reference point for literature in the future. It is not in any way worth causing any upset.

I'm an atheist and my mum took DD to a church toddler group when she was little (also as part of a free childcare set up). DD loved it and it definitely didn't affect her religious beliefs. She's as atheist as the day is long now as a 23 YO. She actually asked me to withdraw her from RE at school when she about 9 and I refused. How can she decide she doesn't believe in something if she doesn't learn about it? I now have a DS with my DH who comes from a fairly religious background. Their minister approached me when DS was a baby to ask if I would agree to him being baptized. I told him I don't believe and don't support organised religion but would be content to allow the baptism (to me a meaningless and harmless ceremony) as long as he understood I wouldn't be making any promises to bring DS up in the church etc etc. To my amazement, he agreed so we went ahead. It kept PIL and the extended family happy and we had a lovely day out. DS received about £500 in gifts too so all in all not a bad day! I honestly wouldn't worry OP.

@WalkingOnTheCracks

I was about twenty-five before I worked out why, during my childhood, my mum and dad had insisted on me taking my ever-increasing number of younger siblings to Sunday School every week.

I wonder if that was the same reason we sent ours? All the dch in the cul-de-sac used to go - someone from the church would collect them and bring them.home - and it was a very quiet cul-de-dac for two hours every Sunday morning

I've just read barry the fish with fingers,I don't think that's going to have any long lasting impact on my child just like I dont think bible stories will. If you feel you've been duped you could raise it. But think of the happiness it's bought your son and his grandma rather than thinking of yourself.

Thank you for the clarification Idontwanna

I have some thinking to do about my own biases (prejudices). I take your point on board.

And as for my friend, our relationship is strong enough for me to question her beliefs and for us to disagree and continue to discuss the topics over time. I wrote "shit" more in surprise than disappointment. I may have been naïve in my assumptions because I have known her for many years and know her to be a very liberal person.

But now we have some long and interesting conversations ahead of us.

YABU and can't be serious?!

As someone who's agnostic and takes her kids to a church group every week, yes yabu. The stories are basically about being nice to people. We do a prayer before snack which is basically be thankful for your food. The art activity is linked to the religious story but the kids just see they're painting a fish or making a boat etc. It's playgroup, not indoctrination.

OP, re your concerns about the going to hell, no sex outside marriage etc etc, you are your dch's main carer and I think your dch will grow up in a UK where those beliefs are more and more seen as abnormal. My own DM was pretty full-on with some of those beliefs to my dch and it has been a way of me and their dad discussing our own beliefs about gay marriage etc with them. So I wouldn't worry about it.

Some friends and I used to take our toddlers to a church playgroup once a week because it was a lovely space to play in. We're all atheist.

Everyone at the group was lovely and they also used to read a story from the Bible but it's simply an acknowledgement that the session is run by the church. There was no pressure to confirm to any organised religion and the people who ran the group knew that about 80% of mums were not part of the church

@PerfectPrepPrincess

I think you're being unreasonable. Listening to a bible story isn't going to make him a believer, if anything it's just a different way of explaining morals and ethics. It'll all stop when he goes to school anyway so I wouldn't fret unessacarily. It'd be mean to stop something so harmless that he enjoys.

I agree with this. I went to a Christian primary school which was all hymns and church trips across the road for Easter etc. My parents weren't religious, and I naturally was an atheist also. Better to maintain a good relationship with Mil Your DS won't really pick up on the religious stuff

You do realise once he is at school regardless of religion they still learn about the bible, my dds school isn't Catholic but they had a priest in at Christmas doing a little mass my dd enjoyed it and asked can she go to father Tom's church. Its a story and once dc is old enough he will decide if he believes or not no harm is being done.

Both kids go to Catholic school and all it’s served to do is put them off religion altogether - both committed atheists! I tend to describe us as “cultural catholics” more than anything

@ChuckBerrysBoots snap!

I hope you realise that state schools in the UK are not secular. They have religious assemblies and can have Bible stories too.

I'm against the whole idea of teaching religion to kids (ie in school) but if this is just a toddler groups he's likely to interpret it as a fairytale.
When my kids come home from school and tell me about the things they heard in RE class ie heaven and hell, they clearly see it as a fairytale too.

"Well the RE curriculum shouldn't be taught like that."

Yes, RE is about understanding different religions, but assemblies can actually teach a religion, unless the law has changed recently. I went to a normal state school, not a faith school and there were prayers every day and religious assembly with hymns and readings.

I think your being unreasonable tbh. It's a bible story? So when your child goes to school he/she can not take part in the nativity etc? Celebrate Easter? It will be open to everyone is just a kids group