Page 14 | Christian MIL taking DC to Christian toddler group - I was unaware

noodlezoodle · 06/04/2022 19:19

I get being taken aback because she didn't ask but I agree it's pretty harmless stuff, unless this is the paramilitary wing of an evangelical playgroup.

Children are going to be exposed to religious stories, prayers and other rituals as part of daily life but it doesn't follow that they will automatically be believers.

Slightly off topic I'm laughing at the notion that Noah's Ark is one of the nice, child-appropriate bible stories, given that it's about God killing every living thing except Noah's family and the animals on the ark, but there we go.

Midlifemusings · 06/04/2022 19:19

@AtheistMama

If you have Jewish and Hindu people in your family, how are you working to be sure they never share anythign from their faith with your child?

Personally I wouldn't care if my kid heard a Jewish story or Hindu story or Christian story.

Sounds like both sides of your family have people with various faiths. Exposure to people with different viewpoints is not a bad thing.

Isonthecase · 06/04/2022 19:20

We also used to go to the church playgroup, it had the best biscuits 😂 I really wouldn't stress, the Bible story isn't anything more than they'll come across in school anyway with Christmas and Easter assemblies, it's treated much the same way as other places might read Goldilocks at the end.

DarkShade · 06/04/2022 19:20

My local church has a toddler group attended by atheists, Muslims and Hindus. As others have said, the story is just a story to them, and the messages in the stories they use at toddler group tend to be harmless.

DietrichandDiMaggio · 06/04/2022 19:23

@Mummy2C

I wouldn't worry about them listening to Bible stories. They will hear religious stories at school too in RE lessons and assemblies etc. You can't hide them from them unless you home school.

Not necessarily true. In the school I work in there are never Bible stories in assembly and it's it's highly likely that a child could go right through the school without hearing any stories, other than probably Easter and Christmas. When learning about different religions, children learn about each religion's texts, main beliefs and rituals, symbols and festivals etc, because the aim is to educate about the religion, not to persuade them to believe in it.

codeVeronica · 06/04/2022 19:25

[quote saraclara]@twentythreehundred the CofE isn't dictatorial in these matters at all. Individual vicars are allowed their own views and their own actions within reason.

My great aunt was a vicar and held very liberal views. Anglican churches can be very different from each other, and there's generally a place that suits any attendee, be they conservative high church people, or very liberal in their views.

And of course there are gay vicars. The Rev Richard Coles is of course a very out vicar as well as broadcaster.[/quote]
The CofE still doesn't allow same sex couples to be married in their churches.

And OP said the toddler group is at her grandmother's church, which is a homophobic evangelical church. Not just Church of Scotland.

SirChenjins · 06/04/2022 19:25

@DarkShade

My local church has a toddler group attended by atheists, Muslims and Hindus. As others have said, the story is just a story to them, and the messages in the stories they use at toddler group tend to be harmless.

They’re part of a harmful belief structure which does not teach tolerance or acceptance and which has very fixed, negative views on people who are not part of that structure. I cannot think of any other intolerant belief system that I would take a child to and allow them to listen to a story designed to introduce them into such a structure - and then minimise it by saying ‘it’s just a story’.

StrictlySinging · 06/04/2022 19:26

Fwiw

I think she takes toddler to where her friends and community are meeting up and he gets to run around and play and listen to a story possibly.

To toddler at the moment this is just meeting up with granny’s mates for a fun time. No need to think anymore deeply than that.

They probably have a lovely time.

There will be times in the future where teachers introduce religions and DC come home with an opinion formed outside the home and you may give them your opinion alongside.

Ultimately DC will decide which approach suits them.

Cultureclub · 06/04/2022 19:27

It wouldn't concern me at all, I don't see the danger in a Christian toddler group. I'm sure the story won't have much significance for your child anyway but it is useful, whether religious or not, to have a grasp of bible stories.

ZenNudist · 06/04/2022 19:27

Harmless DC won't remember it. Not worth putting your MIL nose out of joint over. She probably likes the cup of team and a sit down whilst dc plays in safe clean space, presumably with nice toys, possibly good crafts and snacks for a reasonable church subsidised price. So I wouldn't sweat it. Baby sensory or baby rugby round here is All £££££ but church groups about £2 or 3.

HikingforScenery · 06/04/2022 19:27

YAbu

Agreeeeed · 06/04/2022 19:27

Yabu. I wouldn’t.
It’s just a bible story.
If they were telling a bunch of three year olds that sex before marriage is a sin or homophobic views then I’d understand. But if it’s literally a bible story. I’d have no problem with my children hearing a story from any of the main religious texts. It doesn’t mean we have to believe it.

He as will be going to school soon and probably soon receiving funded nursery hours it will look as though you are making a point about this and willing to upset her now, when you don’t need the free childcare anymore.

Furthermore, if she is part of this religion but you have trusted her and accepted childcare, that surely means you trust her judgement. And therefore trust her not to expose him to anything extreme.
It’s just playgroup.

Limer · 06/04/2022 19:28

The Bible stories and songs based on Bible stories are fine. I still love a rousing chorus, with actions, of "The Wise Man Built His House Upon The Rock".

But I'd be a bit worried if the organisers are possibly making comments like, "don't be naughty, God is watching" "Jesus will be sad if you don't do as you're told" etc. Especially if your MIL is nodding along in agreement. If I was you, I'd go along one week and just see how the land lies.

godmum56 · 06/04/2022 19:32

@twentythreehundred
"I did not know this about CofE as I have a close friend who is a CofE clerical person (I don't know what she does but she wears a black robe thing) and I would never have thought her to have those views. Shit. I've never spoken to her about her religious views."

I know....because I have discussed it.... that not all members of churches adhere strictly to all the church's beliefs or agree with them. I know churchgoing Roman Catholics who use contraception, I know C of E vicars who know and accept that people have sex before marriage and they have friends who are in sexually active same sex partnerships. I am not for one moment excusing or condoning the CofE's official views.....more pragmatically, I don't believe that abortion or gay marriage will feature in a play group.

Kezzie200 · 06/04/2022 19:34

My pa

godmum56 · 06/04/2022 19:34

@ZenNudist

Harmless DC won't remember it. Not worth putting your MIL nose out of joint over. She probably likes the cup of team and a sit down whilst dc plays in safe clean space, presumably with nice toys, possibly good crafts and snacks for a reasonable church subsidised price. So I wouldn't sweat it. Baby sensory or baby rugby round here is All £££££ but church groups about £2 or 3.

Baby rugby sounds dangerous

twentythreehundred · 06/04/2022 19:35

If you judge me because of the Catholic's church stance on any of those things, that's your own limitations and ignorance,not mine.

idontwanna I am not sure I follow what you are referring to here? How could I judge your life based on a MN thread? Did I? I may have.

Talkwhilstyouwalk · 06/04/2022 19:36

I'm not religious at all but I go to a weekly church toddler group. It's mostly playing, a bit of singing and a bible story. The bible story is admittedly a bit too much for me and seems quite pointless as none of the toddlers are remotely interested in that bit. I'd say that 80% of the people who go are not religious....but it's a fun, sociable group and it's cheap compared to other groups. I think you are possibly overthinking it. I'd let her take him....trust me he won't be interested in the bible story but he'll enjoy toddling around with the other little ones.

Talkwhilstyouwalk · 06/04/2022 19:36

@Tanaqui

It probably is open to the whole community- most church toddler groups are. The bible story is just a nod to the fact that it is run by the church- and stories like Noahs Ark are very useful to know because of their wider cultural connotations. I wouldn't worry- I am sure your dc will just enjoy it as a story.

Exactly this

OnceuponaRainbow18 · 06/04/2022 19:37

My toddler /baby groups here are in church’s and have some sort of bible story, most non religious kids see it as that, a story.

OnceuponaRainbow18 · 06/04/2022 19:37

I meant most not my!

Kezzie200 · 06/04/2022 19:39

My parents sent me to Sunday School in the 70s because they wanted me out of their hair to cook lunch.

I'm a complete atheist now!

I lived bible stories and was always asking questions which they couldn't answer so I'd ask even more. I guess I was lucky not to be kicked out (is that a thing they do?). I wasn't rude just generally confused and the fact they couldn't clearly answer, didn't help their cause.

It wouldn't bother me. I would talk to my children about what they've done and if the stories are brought up, have a conversation about them.

Just because we don't believe in religion doesn't mean we can't take fables (from anywhere) and weave good actions into our own lives

cocacolalover56 · 06/04/2022 19:39

@AtheistMama

Name change for this one.

My MIL does childcare once a week for DS aged 3, for which I am grateful for - they have a great relationship, and obviously it saves us money on nursery fees.

My MIL is a lovely women, not a bad bone in her body. She is also devoutly Christian, belonging to an evangelical church. DH was brought up as an evangelical Christian, but is an atheist and slowly detached himself from their church in his young adulthood. There is no animosity from his mother and the wider family about this (who are mostly also evangelical Christians).

DH and I have been together for 10 years, married for 5, but I have never really talked to MIL about my religious beliefs because she is quite sensitive/easily upset and I didn't want to offend her. The status quo has just been that it is obvious to all that DH and I are not Christian and it's been left at that.

My understanding of DH's families beliefs is that they think everyone who is not baptised is going to Hell; they also do not approve of homosexuality or gay marriage, sex before marriage, etc. I am an atheist and do not subscribe to these beliefs. In particular, the idea that they believe that I am going to Hell bothers me when I think about it. In general, I am anti-organised religion and was never going to bring DS up in any religious way.

MIL takes DS to a toddler's group at her church every week, but I was under the impression that it was open to the whole community and therefore not Christian (I think this came from DH not my MIL). I looked up the group today (was wondering about the timings for a seperate reason), and clocked that they have a Bible story every week.

I'm feeling a bit annoyed because if I had known about the Bible story bit when it was first suggested that she take him (years ago), I would have gently asked her to pick another activity. But now he's been going for a few years, he loves it and it's part of their routine. She would probably be upset by being asked to stop going (and probably it didn't occur to her that I wouldn't be happy about it).

However, I feel really uncomfortable about the Bible story, and annoyed that she didn't say anything at the start. Needless to say, DS has never mentioned it, so it's possible that he's running around the hall and not even listening to it.

DH tends to skirt around issues with his DM that might be upsetting because he thinks she's quite delicate and feels protective about her.

AIBU to bring it up with her now?

My goodness I would have a huge issue with this! She should not be indoctrinating your young and impressionable child with such ideologies. I would try and steer clear :(

Wannago · 06/04/2022 19:41

Do you do Santa Claus?

True story. When I was nursery age,the family had to travel for DF's work, so we lived somewhere else for four months, and I was put in a local nursery school, which DM said was very good but it made all the DC, including me, desperately excited about Santa Claus. DM didn't believe in any of this and said that no way was she going to do chimneys and stocking and mince pies for a mythical entity, but she didn't feel she could, in the circumstances, tell me the truth either, so she claimed that because we were travelling, Santa Claus couldn't find us! That way she didn't have me telling the whole nursery he didn't exist, but simultaneously didn't feel pushed into doing something against her beliefs. She used to cite this as one of the few times she lied to me (she didn't believe in "lying to kids" either - not necessarily telling them the whole truth before they were ready for it, yes, but not actively lying). By the following year back at home, I was told it was all made up, and we weren't doing it.
My sense is my DM was very unusual (kids at school would have said weird) for even this level. I think most people end up tolerating a certain amount of what they consider nonsense in the outside environment, especially when DC are young, and sometimes even when the DC come home convinced and believing in things that the adults hold are just not true.

Wisenotboring · 06/04/2022 19:41

You would be very hard pressed to find a local toddler group that isn't run by a church to be honest. There aren't many groups willing to offer such a valuable service and space for young families at no or nominal cost. Out of curiosity, why would you think a bible story wouldn't be read in a community group?
These groups have run for years and there is no threat to your daughter. If you think about it, society and your home offers a secular view on life and a 5 minute weekly bible story is a very small proportion of that week. She probably won't even remember. As a previous poster put it, don't rock the ark on this one.