Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Christian MIL taking DC to Christian toddler group - I was unaware

507 replies

AtheistMama · 06/04/2022 15:12

Name change for this one.

My MIL does childcare once a week for DS aged 3, for which I am grateful for - they have a great relationship, and obviously it saves us money on nursery fees.

My MIL is a lovely women, not a bad bone in her body. She is also devoutly Christian, belonging to an evangelical church. DH was brought up as an evangelical Christian, but is an atheist and slowly detached himself from their church in his young adulthood. There is no animosity from his mother and the wider family about this (who are mostly also evangelical Christians).

DH and I have been together for 10 years, married for 5, but I have never really talked to MIL about my religious beliefs because she is quite sensitive/easily upset and I didn't want to offend her. The status quo has just been that it is obvious to all that DH and I are not Christian and it's been left at that.

My understanding of DH's families beliefs is that they think everyone who is not baptised is going to Hell; they also do not approve of homosexuality or gay marriage, sex before marriage, etc. I am an atheist and do not subscribe to these beliefs. In particular, the idea that they believe that I am going to Hell bothers me when I think about it. In general, I am anti-organised religion and was never going to bring DS up in any religious way.

MIL takes DS to a toddler's group at her church every week, but I was under the impression that it was open to the whole community and therefore not Christian (I think this came from DH not my MIL). I looked up the group today (was wondering about the timings for a seperate reason), and clocked that they have a Bible story every week.

I'm feeling a bit annoyed because if I had known about the Bible story bit when it was first suggested that she take him (years ago), I would have gently asked her to pick another activity. But now he's been going for a few years, he loves it and it's part of their routine. She would probably be upset by being asked to stop going (and probably it didn't occur to her that I wouldn't be happy about it).

However, I feel really uncomfortable about the Bible story, and annoyed that she didn't say anything at the start. Needless to say, DS has never mentioned it, so it's possible that he's running around the hall and not even listening to it.

DH tends to skirt around issues with his DM that might be upsetting because he thinks she's quite delicate and feels protective about her.

AIBU to bring it up with her now?

OP posts:
TheKeatingFive · 06/04/2022 18:29

Playgroup

twentythreehundred · 06/04/2022 18:30

@ldontWanna

No, @PinkSyCo because most of Christianity in the UK isn't fundamentalist evangelical.

They are still homophobic, sexist and abusive in many ways. Like not performing gay marriages or being against abortion.

The language might have changed and they attempt to look liberal and progressive,but the basics are the same even if not so much in your face.

A shit, in a pretty wrapper is still shit not chocolate.

Are CofE against performing gay marriage and against abortion?

I really don't know the particulars of most Christianity in the UK, other than fundamentalism, so maybe your opinions are
more accurate reflection, what I have known of CofE was fairly liberal - even going so far as to say that you didn't have to believe in God to be their type of Christian.

Thesefeetaremadeforwalking · 06/04/2022 18:30

@Blossomtoes

It doesn’t have to be to be sexist and homophobic. Look at the Catholic church’s record on paedophilia

I'm not sure what your point is?

How is this to do with OP's post?

Iggi999 · 06/04/2022 18:33

was under the impression that it was open to the whole community and therefore not Christian OP I'm sure it is open to the whole community - it's unlikely they could fill a toddler group just from church parents alone! Your child will hear Bible stories at school, and unless you cut her off your mil will have some influence on your dc's view of religion growing up. But yours will be far stronger.

Bethany7 · 06/04/2022 18:34

I really wouldn't worry. The bible story part is prob about 10mins long and it may be from the bible but it's basically a simple story.
Also are you sure your mil follows the beliefs of the teaching of the church?
I am a Christian but I wholeheartedly disagree with many of the views as do many of my fellow parishioners.

Thesefeetaremadeforwalking · 06/04/2022 18:34

@twentythreehundred

'what I have known of CofE was fairly liberal - even going so far as to say that you didn't have to believe in God to be their type of Christian.'

Shock

I don't know what sort of 'Christianity' you are talking about but the basic tenet of Christianity is a belief in the Trinity.

twentythreehundred · 06/04/2022 18:35

C of E is Christianity😀, jus a different denomination
@woodhill if you are a fundamentalist evangelical Christian, then CofE would not be considered Christianity. To fundamentalists, CofE would be another group of liberal people who have been deceived by the secular world or deceived by the devil and they would still be going to hell. They would not be considered "Christians"

TheNameOfTheRoses · 06/04/2022 18:38

@AtheistMama I think you’ll have a shock when your dc goes to school.
They will be participating to many events at school all religious. From signing for harvest festival, christmas, easter etc…to hearing about stories from the bible and so on.

It will be part of your child education unless you also decide to make a stand with school too and ask them to take the child out for all those activities.
Fwiw I’m an atheist and have always said that schools shouldn’t be preaching as much as they do.
The results of hearing about God etc… at school is two older teenagers who can’t stand religion and are as atheist as you can make them. I dindt even push that, quite the opposite as, just like you, I have some PIL who are religious and I wanted to be sure the dcs would be respectful of their beliefs too,

bellocchild · 06/04/2022 18:40

I used to have this problem as an agnostic supply teacher covering RE lessons. I would aim for 'Some/many people believe...'. It worked fine.

SirChenjins · 06/04/2022 18:41

I would have a massive problem with this. As an atheist bringing up children with no faith the bible (or indeed any religious text) is not something I want to be in our lives. The stories are outdated, irrelevant and at times deeply offensive, and the fundamentalist belief structure that the OP describes plays no part in my life. I’d be countering it with a very strong message that while some people believe these stories many don’t, and I would introduce my child to a wide range of stories showing alternative beliefs, both religious and non-religious to balance out the madness.

Saltyquiche · 06/04/2022 18:41

It’s a non issue, a bible story is just a story in the eyes of a toddler. The moral of the story will boil down to kindness or helping others or similar. A toddler group is not enough to endocrine your child, a young child’s parents will be the greatest influence

twentythreehundred · 06/04/2022 18:42

@Thesefeetaremadeforwalking I very well may be wrong about that. I thought I read that statement many years ago in the God Delusion - as quoted by Giles Fraser from CofE. But I may be wrong.

teaandtoastwithmarmite · 06/04/2022 18:44

Oh and when they go to school they hear all about it anyway. My DD has been talking a lot about Jesus lately

TheKeatingFive · 06/04/2022 18:45

The stories are outdated, irrelevant and at times deeply offensive

They are also totally fundamental to western culture, art, music, moral and ethical principles.

I don't see any value in being ignorant of them. Better to critique from a position of knowledge.

ldontWanna · 06/04/2022 18:48

@twentythreehundred

On abortion:

The Church of England combines strong opposition to abortion with a recognition that there can be strictly limited conditions under which it may be morally preferable to any available alternative. This is based on our view that the foetus is a human life with the potential to develop relationships, think, pray, choose and love.

We would like to see a drastic reduction in the number of abortions carried out and stricter interpretation of abortion law

all abortions are tragedies, since they entail judging one person’s welfare against that of another (even if one is, as yet, unborn).

On gay marriages I believe there is a meeting to look at the possibility of allowing them in church this year. It doesn't mean they will allow it. Gay clergy are allowed to be in a relationship as long as they are celibate.Hmm

Their current guidance:

Because of the ambiguity about the place of sexual activity within civil partnerships of both sorts, and the church’s teaching that marriage between a man and a woman is the proper context for sexual intercourse, we do not believe that it is possible for the church unconditionally to accept civil partnerships as unequivocally reflecting the teaching of the church.

With opposite sex civil partnerships, and with those for same sex couples, the Church’s teaching on sexual ethics remains unchanged. For Christians, marriage – that is the lifelong union between a man and a woman, contracted with the making of vows – remains the proper context for sexual activity.

NuffSaidSam · 06/04/2022 18:48

I'm a nanny (atheist if it's relevant) and have been taking various children to various church run playgroups for 15 years.

Every single one has some small Christian bit (a prayer at the end, a song about Noah, a children's Bible story etc.).

None of those children came from religious homes and none were converted by a once weekly, 2 minute, Christian element in their pre-school years. It makes absolutely zero difference. A complete and utter non-issue.

ldontWanna · 06/04/2022 18:49

@SirChenjins

I would have a massive problem with this. As an atheist bringing up children with no faith the bible (or indeed any religious text) is not something I want to be in our lives. The stories are outdated, irrelevant and at times deeply offensive, and the fundamentalist belief structure that the OP describes plays no part in my life. I’d be countering it with a very strong message that while some people believe these stories many don’t, and I would introduce my child to a wide range of stories showing alternative beliefs, both religious and non-religious to balance out the madness.
Do you plan to homeschool then? Or withdraw your child from any form of RE?
MakeMineALarge1 · 06/04/2022 18:50

My son went to a church based toddler group, went to Sunday School and is now in a C/E School, he doesn't have a religious bone in his body

With all due respect you need to get over yourself OP, she is taking him to a group she is familiar with, that will have people there she can chat to and your child will make friends, what seriously is wrong with that?

HappyDays40 · 06/04/2022 18:52

I love the way people access faith based activities and then expect them not to mention God. What can you expect? You knew she was accessing toddler group in a church and then are surprised when bible stories are involved 🙄

latriciamcneal · 06/04/2022 18:53

I get why you feel a little betrayed that it was kept a secret, but honestly what is your actual issue with the child hearing a Bible story?

Aspiringmatriarch · 06/04/2022 18:54

I'm a bit bemused by this thread. Church playgroups are a very normal thing to take toddlers to and they tend to be good. There's really nothing sinister about them unless this is some kind of very unusual and extreme one. I took DS to several different church playgroups and certainly never felt he was being indoctrinated. You're really worried about a few Bible stories? Even in mainstream primary schools children cover things like the Christmas and Easter stories. Confused It's part of his cultural heritage.

Scarybutnecassary · 06/04/2022 18:54

Really couldn’t get worked up about it TBH …bible story = fairy story !
Unless people ignore Christmas \Easter as well ,going to church toddler group is a non issue!

twentythreehundred · 06/04/2022 18:55

[quote ldontWanna]@twentythreehundred

On abortion:

The Church of England combines strong opposition to abortion with a recognition that there can be strictly limited conditions under which it may be morally preferable to any available alternative. This is based on our view that the foetus is a human life with the potential to develop relationships, think, pray, choose and love.

We would like to see a drastic reduction in the number of abortions carried out and stricter interpretation of abortion law

all abortions are tragedies, since they entail judging one person’s welfare against that of another (even if one is, as yet, unborn).

On gay marriages I believe there is a meeting to look at the possibility of allowing them in church this year. It doesn't mean they will allow it. Gay clergy are allowed to be in a relationship as long as they are celibate.Hmm

Their current guidance:

Because of the ambiguity about the place of sexual activity within civil partnerships of both sorts, and the church’s teaching that marriage between a man and a woman is the proper context for sexual intercourse, we do not believe that it is possible for the church unconditionally to accept civil partnerships as unequivocally reflecting the teaching of the church.

With opposite sex civil partnerships, and with those for same sex couples, the Church’s teaching on sexual ethics remains unchanged. For Christians, marriage – that is the lifelong union between a man and a woman, contracted with the making of vows – remains the proper context for sexual activity.

[/quote]
Well, that's fairly damning isn't it, Idontwanna

I did not know this about CofE as I have a close friend who is a CofE clerical person (I don't know what she does but she wears a black robe thing) and I would never have thought her to have those views. Shit. I've never spoken to her about her religious views.

Thesefeetaremadeforwalking · 06/04/2022 18:56

@twentythreehundred

' I very well may be wrong about that. I thought I read that statement many years ago in the God Delusion - as quoted by Giles Fraser from CofE. But I may be wrong.'

I don't know anything about Giles Fraser ( I believe he is a C of E vicar) but 'The God Delusion' was written by an atheist called Richard Dawkins.

Concestor · 06/04/2022 18:58

YABU

But especially for being bothered about your in laws believing that you will go to hell as a non believer. First, that's literally their religious belief. Second, why does it bother you? You don't believe in hell... do you?