Christian MIL taking DC to Christian toddler group - I was unaware

[AtheistMama]

Name change for this one.

My MIL does childcare once a week for DS aged 3, for which I am grateful for - they have a great relationship, and obviously it saves us money on nursery fees.

My MIL is a lovely women, not a bad bone in her body. She is also devoutly Christian, belonging to an evangelical church. DH was brought up as an evangelical Christian, but is an atheist and slowly detached himself from their church in his young adulthood. There is no animosity from his mother and the wider family about this (who are mostly also evangelical Christians).

DH and I have been together for 10 years, married for 5, but I have never really talked to MIL about my religious beliefs because she is quite sensitive/easily upset and I didn't want to offend her. The status quo has just been that it is obvious to all that DH and I are not Christian and it's been left at that.

My understanding of DH's families beliefs is that they think everyone who is not baptised is going to Hell; they also do not approve of homosexuality or gay marriage, sex before marriage, etc. I am an atheist and do not subscribe to these beliefs. In particular, the idea that they believe that I am going to Hell bothers me when I think about it. In general, I am anti-organised religion and was never going to bring DS up in any religious way.

MIL takes DS to a toddler's group at her church every week, but I was under the impression that it was open to the whole community and therefore not Christian (I think this came from DH not my MIL). I looked up the group today (was wondering about the timings for a seperate reason), and clocked that they have a Bible story every week.

I'm feeling a bit annoyed because if I had known about the Bible story bit when it was first suggested that she take him (years ago), I would have gently asked her to pick another activity. But now he's been going for a few years, he loves it and it's part of their routine. She would probably be upset by being asked to stop going (and probably it didn't occur to her that I wouldn't be happy about it).

However, I feel really uncomfortable about the Bible story, and annoyed that she didn't say anything at the start. Needless to say, DS has never mentioned it, so it's possible that he's running around the hall and not even listening to it.

DH tends to skirt around issues with his DM that might be upsetting because he thinks she's quite delicate and feels protective about her.

AIBU to bring it up with her now?

I go to a playground run by a church and there’s often a bible story but to be honest it mainly goes over the children’s head

Look past the bible story, it's a distraction. I'd be looking at exactly which evangelical church it is and confirm whether the sessions are open to the whole community or just the church community. I think you're avoiding saying which and may be avoiding asking direct questions of your husband in case he gives the wrong answers, but there's a couple of things you mentioned that have my spidey-senses tingling.

I got dragged to church by my mum and much like your DP distanced myself in early teens. Complete atheist now.

But I'm glad I know all the stories, they were pretty cool and feel historical to me now (even though I don't believe in them).

It's just a story.

But it will mean that you are supporting a homophobic, sexist, prejudiced institution by attending.

But apparently that seems to be an irrelevant point to many posters.

So by that token we should all refuse to go to Christian weddings, funerals and christenings?

• But it will mean that you are supporting a homophobic, sexist, prejudiced institution by attending.

But apparently that seems to be an irrelevant point to many posters. 🤷‍♀️*

Like most other religions then? That means no church run toddler groups should be attended by atheists/people that disagree with their beliefs. And there's definitely plenty to disagree with in most organised religions.

YABU. We're Catholic but the childminder took DS to a similar evangelical church thing as it was £2 per family and they all got fed and did a craft activity.

DS is now an avowed atheist after all of the religion (went to a catholic school too) and it has left no lasting impression.

Loads of people going were not Christian themselves either but they liked the craft and the cheap tea!

@PinkSyCo

But it will mean that you are supporting a homophobic, sexist, prejudiced institution by attending.

But apparently that seems to be an irrelevant point to many posters.

So by that token we should all refuse to go to Christian weddings, funerals and christenings?

No, @PinkSyCo because most of Christianity in the UK isn't fundamentalist evangelical.

If it’s a toddler group run by an evangelical church, they WILL be running it as an “outreach” and they WILL be hoping some families from it start coming on Sundays too.

That doesn’t apply to you, cos you don’t attend, so in this case I’d let your lovely MIL do something with him they both enjoy and rest assured he’ll start school soon enough and it will become a distant memory :)

I’d agree with others who say that the social bit of the toddler group is probably more beneficial for him than any bible story.
I am not religious nor do i go to church, I’m not an atheist more agnostic but my DC when to church schools from 4 - 8 ( we have a middle school system) they were my local catchment schools so that’s where they went.
So they had lots of years of bible stories, going to church, church festivals etc You name it , they did it. It was most definitely a regular primary and middle school but there was religious practice every day ( assembly) as well as everything else such as attending church at key points in the year. RE Lessons to my mind were balanced and allowed huge discussion and debate about lots of things, gay marriage, religion, divorce, drugs etc ( all age appropriate) but balance was there.
They are both adults now and both atheists, and look on their school days with fondness!

I'm a liberal Christian married to agnostic DH and I took our DD to a couple of Christian toddler groups. The Christian content was pretty low - Bible story at the story time, singing a few songs along with some common preschool songs. She now goes to a primary school (not a church school) and they've done the Christmas and Easter stories as part of the curriculum, along with stories from other faiths.
None of it was wildly evangelical and they'd never have got onto views I wouldn't have agreed with (eg around women or homosexuality) because of the age group involved.

@twentythreehundred

Homophobia (homosexuals go to hell and homosexuality is a sin)

Virginity at marriage (which precludes women accessing birth control before marriage)

All people who haven't accepted Jesus as their saviour go to hell (this is prejudiced against all other religions who don't require this for salvation, such as CofE)

These are extremist beliefs. Why would anyone think these are ok to support by sending your toddler there for a playgroup?

C of E is Christianity😀, jus a different denomination

Just wondered OP, if your MIL is aware of your beliefs (or non-beliefs)?

Did you get married in an Evangelical Church?

I ask because Evangelicals tend to be a bit in-your-face about their particular brand of Christianity.

most of Christianity in the UK isn't fundamentalist evangelical

It doesn’t have to be to be sexist and homophobic. Look at the Catholic church’s record on paedophilia.

I'd grit my teeth and tolerate it for the moment but not after the child is of school age.

My sister in law used to takenDD to a playgroup every week like this. I felt the same until I went myself and realised it's just because it's run by the Christian people at the church

@ldontWanna

* But it will mean that you are supporting a homophobic, sexist, prejudiced institution by attending.

But apparently that seems to be an irrelevant point to many posters. 🤷‍♀️*

Like most other religions then? That means no church run toddler groups should be attended by atheists/people that disagree with their beliefs. And there's definitely plenty to disagree with in most organised religions.

Yes, I agree with you, plenty to debate and discuss in religions and plenty to disagree with - do you think most religions are sexist, homophobic, prejudiced exclusionary? I don't think they are but I don't know the beliefs of all religions and beliefs vary widely within specific religions.

there are fringes that are extreme I many religions but I only know specifically about Evangelical Christianity.

No, @PinkSyCo because most of Christianity in the UK isn't fundamentalist evangelical.

They are still homophobic, sexist and abusive in many ways. Like not performing gay marriages or being against abortion.

The language might have changed and they attempt to look liberal and progressive,but the basics are the same even if not so much in your face.

A shit, in a pretty wrapper is still shit not chocolate.

I grew up with bible stories and like your husband am no longer a Christian. But I still love a lot of the bible stories and would have no problem with a child of mine listening to them

We loved Bethel Group I’m Catholic hubby Atheist but it was a gorgeous group run by lovely people and cheap as chips 50p from what I recall. We’d get cuppa and cake and kids juice n biccie. I also loved the sing songs at end sleeping bunnies and even more so ‘who is the king of the jungle’ I still like belting it out and my girls 10 now 😂 imo YABU

It's going to be difficult to understand a lot of art, literature and history if you don't know any bible stories!

It's a bible story, it's just a story. Obviously she's found something within her own community and he enjoys it. It's not a big deal I think. I also don't believe in religion but I think my son should know about other people's beliefs and have no issue with people sharing their beliefs with him. Unless she's telling him that if he doesn't get baptised he'll burn in he'll for eternity. Like then you'd NBU.

A lot of "militant atheists" who would object to this kind of influence on their child aren't mindless bigots causing trouble for the sake of it. They're traumatised people who have suffered at the hands of spiritually and mentally abusive religious organisations, and understandably they don't want those people or their ilk anywhere near their impressionable child.

I wouldn't be happy for one of mine to attend this group, OP (it may be billed as light on the religious content, but these people have a great deal of experience at shoe-horning their values into ostensibly inocuous social situations - it's what they do and they're very good at it). I would have objected when it was first suggested, though. MIL may not have mentioned the Bible stories, but my assumption would have been that it wouldn't be an entirely secular set-up.

If your child loves going and MIL would be upset to be asked to stop going, then it's your judgement call to make, depending on how strongly you feel about not having your child either indoctrinated or simply forming social bonds with people who have aggressively bigoted views towards minorities, women and humanity in general. I would ask her to stop taking him, personally, and if she wouldn't agree I would pay for childcare instead.

No, @PinkSyCo because most of Christianity in the UK isn't fundamentalist evangelical.

Roman Catholics believe in heaven and hell and supposedly don’t believe in sex before marriage, homosexuality, abortion etc. I was brought up catholic, went to a catholic school etc, as did my children and nieces. None of us share these beliefs. In fact one of my nieces is happily married to a woman and I’m pretty sure none of my grown up, unmarried kids are virgins!

I would not be very concerned about a toddler listening to a bible story. The bible is deeply ingrained in western culture anyway - no getting away from it.

I took DS to Jewish playground when he was a baby. Absolutely no lasting effects.