Christian MIL taking DC to Christian toddler group - I was unaware

[AtheistMama]

Name change for this one.

My MIL does childcare once a week for DS aged 3, for which I am grateful for - they have a great relationship, and obviously it saves us money on nursery fees.

My MIL is a lovely women, not a bad bone in her body. She is also devoutly Christian, belonging to an evangelical church. DH was brought up as an evangelical Christian, but is an atheist and slowly detached himself from their church in his young adulthood. There is no animosity from his mother and the wider family about this (who are mostly also evangelical Christians).

DH and I have been together for 10 years, married for 5, but I have never really talked to MIL about my religious beliefs because she is quite sensitive/easily upset and I didn't want to offend her. The status quo has just been that it is obvious to all that DH and I are not Christian and it's been left at that.

My understanding of DH's families beliefs is that they think everyone who is not baptised is going to Hell; they also do not approve of homosexuality or gay marriage, sex before marriage, etc. I am an atheist and do not subscribe to these beliefs. In particular, the idea that they believe that I am going to Hell bothers me when I think about it. In general, I am anti-organised religion and was never going to bring DS up in any religious way.

MIL takes DS to a toddler's group at her church every week, but I was under the impression that it was open to the whole community and therefore not Christian (I think this came from DH not my MIL). I looked up the group today (was wondering about the timings for a seperate reason), and clocked that they have a Bible story every week.

I'm feeling a bit annoyed because if I had known about the Bible story bit when it was first suggested that she take him (years ago), I would have gently asked her to pick another activity. But now he's been going for a few years, he loves it and it's part of their routine. She would probably be upset by being asked to stop going (and probably it didn't occur to her that I wouldn't be happy about it).

However, I feel really uncomfortable about the Bible story, and annoyed that she didn't say anything at the start. Needless to say, DS has never mentioned it, so it's possible that he's running around the hall and not even listening to it.

DH tends to skirt around issues with his DM that might be upsetting because he thinks she's quite delicate and feels protective about her.

AIBU to bring it up with her now?

The issue isn't the bible stories. It's the fact that your mil hasn't been open with you about the group. As the child's parents, you and dh get to say wether or not you're comfortable with him attending that group. You weren't given that opportunity.

@Peboh

The issue isn't the bible stories. It's the fact that your mil hasn't been open with you about the group. As the child's parents, you and dh get to say wether or not you're comfortable with him attending that group. You weren't given that opportunity.

I think you need to read the OP again.

Honestly OP I wouldn't make a huge fuss as he will be off to school soon so he won't be going anymore plus a bible story once a week won't brainwash him. Just think of the stories as similar to fairytales. They are the original fairy tales really.

If you were atheist you would not agree to her taking your DS to any church event.

This isn't true for all atheists. My DC attended CofE playgroups and ceremonies of other religions and I am atheist. But they did not attend any fundamentalist religious organisations, ceremonies, or playgroups.

I'm a devout atheist, but as a lonely mum used to take dd to a toddler group in a church hall, where there were some nice people and activities, which usually ended with a bible story/song (pretty much all our local toddler groups were in church halls). I remember being quite when dd started singing songs about Jesus at bath time! She's now a teen who has not been influenced in any way by any of it.

I would be more concerned if your mil was feeding him negative views about same sex couples etc.

Or maybe your DC will finish up being a perfectly balanced Christian, like all the ones I know.

If you were atheist you would not agree to her taking your DS to any church event.

That's just blatantly untrue. How many UK atheists do you think send their children to CofE schools or attend Christmas church services? Absolutely loads.

@twentythreehundred

Homophobia (homosexuals go to hell and homosexuality is a sin)

Virginity at marriage (which precludes women accessing birth control before marriage)

All people who haven't accepted Jesus as their saviour go to hell (this is prejudiced against all other religions who don't require this for salvation, such as CofE)

These are extremist beliefs. Why would anyone think these are ok to support by sending your toddler there for a playgroup?

Baptism is necessary for salvation in the CoE.

I really wouldn't worry, I take mine to a church toddler group, we do nursery rhymes and a bible story, they are very much simplified and are done in much more of a teaching lessons about being kind etc. as your son has never mentioned the content then I suspect he isn't really paying attention to the story. The one I go to is friendly and run by lovely people and therefore that's why I have chosen to attend nothing to do with the religious aspect of it.

Another atheist who wouldn’t be bothered. I strongly believe that personal faith is exactly that, personal. So, I’m an atheist, DH is open minded to the whole religious world, my Mum is a staunch Christian and we live in an area that is predominantly Jewish, to varying degrees of orthodoxy.

So, my kids have gone to church with my Mum, been to more Bar and Bat Mitzvahs that I can count, have celebrated Diwali with their friends and listened to me bang on about your life’s destiny is purely your own and you are accountable to your own soul only.

It’s important to expose them to a wide selection of belief so they can make their own minds up on what their hearts believe. Their moral compass however IS your job.

Baptism is necessary for salvation in the CoE.

Baptism by choice of the child/adult? Will they go to hell if they aren't baptised? Are they taught that anyone who isn't baptised will go to hell?

Evangelical Salvation means being saved from hell and having Jesus as your Saviour, based on John 3:16.

For some in CofE that I know, salvation isn't quite so literal as being saved from eternal hell, rather salvation may mean a living salvation, a way of living, a recognition. (I don't know the language) rather than being recruited to avoiding a list of behavioural sins such as premarital sex, homosexuality, etc.

I was brought up in the church. I'm a very happy atheist now. Some of my family are still very Christian (and we get on fine).

My daughters used to be looked after by my brother and sister-in-law some Sundays, and they took them to church, where they attended Sunday School. They came home having heard the Bible stories and all that. They talked about it a lot - they were fascinated.

I thought that was fine. I went through it and came out an atheist - as did your husband. It's good to have enough information to make considered choices, and Sunday School is a good source of information.

Ten years later, by the way, both daughters are atheist - if not giving a toss about it equates to atheism.

@Ponderingwindow

You have been incredibly naive. These community playgroups are always a form of evangelism. The messaging may be relatively simple, but that is part of the point. Religious entities host these community events to get people in the door and start the indoctrination.

What? Thats truly nonsense. Its a toddler group ffs.

I'm not Christian either but almost everyone where I live attends the playgroup at the local church. It features some bible stories and songs. The toddlers are oblivious and couldnt care less. The volunteers are more hoping to connect with the adults attending, the children really don't engage with the religious elements at all.

DS announced at 9 that he was an atheist and gave several good reasons for his beliefs. He's been lugged out to CoE services since being a baby and I'm happy that he's come to his own conclusions about his beliefs. When he's old enough to leave at home he can, but until then church is just cultural context for life in the UK (and gives some overlap of understanding with Islam and Judaism). I always treated it with the RE teacher routine of "some people believe..."

Asa child I occasionally experienced services at JWs and Mormans through family. I disagree with elements of their beliefs and practices, but better that I do that from some knowledge rather than prejudice.

Toddler groups have far more benefits than risks. The advantage to the church is that it makes it more accessible for potential new members to join, but that's not through contraversial content aimed at toddlers, and it is fine to superficially accept the community offered. Children will learn much of the content anyway through school and come to their own conclusions about what they believe.

Your partner was raised in an evangelical Christian household with a full-time evangelical Christian mother, and yet he came out an atheist.

I wouldn't worry.

I'd be more concerned about your MIL's
beliefs and what she could be saying to him!

I went to a CofE toddler group, an after-school club as a child, and horse riding camps as a teen. I remember lots of the more cheery bibles stories, some plays acting out Christian values like being kind, and some fun songs (he's got the whole worllllddd in his hands). I do not recall any mention of homosexuality being sinful/wrong, eternal damnation of anyone, or virginity. Throughout, i have remained an atheist/agnostic, largely because my close family are not believers. Honestly, I wouldn't be worried about this

My in laws sound exactly like yours and my DH similar too - he’s not Atheist and neither am I, more agnostic and definitely don’t bring our kids up under any religion but focus instead on being kind, accepting people. However, I wouldn’t worry about them having a bible story at a religious play group. My kids go to a Church of England school and I think it’s actually a good way of showing them that is what some people like to believe and follow. I think some bible stories have a nice message and that’s all they are, stories. I wouldn’t worry at all about it. My FIL is always trying to do his bit and shoving bibles in my, now older kids’ hands rather stealthy but they just humour him 😂🙄

Being read a bible story once a week will not turn your small son into god fearing homophobe. YABU.

My parents are atheists yet I went to a convent school and one affiliated to a cathedral so I had a lot of religion growing up. I liked the stories as a kid but it didn't make me religious because it wasn't continued at home.

I think I would just say 'thanks very much for looking after my child so well MIL. I really appreciate it.'

Round here you'd be hard pushed to find a toddler group that isn't affiliated to a church! Because no-one else wants to give up their time to run one for free.
I genuinely wouldn't worry. I am a Christian and took my kids to a Christian toddler group and can hand on heart say they found the story the most boring bit and barely took in a word!
Loads of mums and dad's who were aethists took their kids there too. The bible story will not make a jot of difference to his beliefs at that age. And as he gets older you can just explain that some believe and some don't and he will have to make his own mind up about that. That's what I say to my kids!
But honestly I genuinely wouldn't worry. I can guarantee there will be heaps of aethists there. It's more for his socialisation than anything else and if he loves it I'd say that's brilliant. He's clearly getting a lot from it.

@PinkSyCo

Being read a bible story once a week will not turn your small son into god fearing homophobe. YABU.

But it will mean that you are supporting a homophobic, sexist, prejudiced institution by attending.

But apparently that seems to be an irrelevant point to many posters. 🤷‍♀️

I’m late to the party..

I used to love the playgroups at the evangelical churches. Excellent biscuits. A few bible stories and few hearty “yes Jesus loves me”s didn’t bother me or the toddler in the slightest.
Equally I’d have had no problem going to a playgroup in a mosque or synagogue had I known of them.
Is your MIL actually trying to brainwash your youngster or does she too just like the biscuits on offer?