When men say "I prefer women without make-up"...

[ThingThatIBring]

AIBU to think that when men say "I prefer women without make-up" that they don't usually know what they're talking about (and don't usually have a clue that women ARE wearing it)?

The reality of this statement is usually:

• I don't like it when women wear really obvious MAKE-UP make-up (loads of lippy and false eyelashes etc) or when it's badly applied (making it obvious);
• I like really good-looking fresh-faced young women whose complexions, etc., look smooth without it;
• I like to think of myself as very wholesome (and maybe a bit of a feminist).

What they DON'T mean (but don't realise they don't mean) is:

• I prefer the look of the average woman of my own age without any make-up on.

I know so many men who say this, and it always mildly irritates me as it's said like it's a kind of virtue.

As a post-mating-phase human, it's not like it really affects my life. But it always makes me feel for all the women who are still in a position where they're affected by this nonsense...

@Momijin

I know plenty of women who look better without make up.

As many posters have said, no make up that you KNOW of. They are very likely wearing a little. Even so, no way does ANY women look better without makeup.

As I have said (repeatedly - and I am boring mySELF now,) most women look fine without make up on, but will look better WITH it on. Doesn't mean they're dog rough/ugly without make up on, just that they look better WITH it on.

I have always been reasonable looking - not a supermodel, but decent - and I look pretty good with make up on, but fairly average without it. I can enhance my best features with make up (my eyes, and my cheekbones.) Without make up, I look wan and pallid, and my eyes look tired. I looked better with no make up pre mid 30s, but still looked better with it. As does every woman.

Even the gorgeous Alicia Keys who is very proud of the fact she is make-up free now, looks lovely without make up. But STILL looked better WITH make up on.

(That said, I have examined some of her 'make-up-free' photos, and I am not entirely convinced she is not wearing make up.)

Remember the 'no-make-up selfies' from several years ago, that people were plastering all over Twitter and Instagram? The vast majority DEFINTELY had some make up on. They must think people are daft!

Pissing myself that the guy who whinged about having to have a "whale of a woman through lack of choice" is now taking a stand against "shaming language". Can you not hear yourself? Is the pod soundproof?

Men are so often twats about this. I told DP never to mention it again because I was sick of it. 'I like the natural look' aye right pal. When your fave famous crush is Kylie Minogue and I'm supposed to look glam without resorting to such unnatural gimmicks as mascara or hair straighteners, fuck all the way off.

*'14:10OfstedOffred

Blackmagicqueen
I'm sitting here at my office right now genuinely wearingnomakeup. No mascara, no concealer, nothing. Why is it assumed I must havesomethingon my skin? I'm ok with how I look with nothing.*"

Who has assumed you have something on your skin? My comment was in reply to looking better without makeup and somebody saying that she knows people who do. I am yet to see anybody that truly looks better without even very natural moisturiser/lip balm etc.

@DrSbaitso

Pissing myself that the guy who whinged about having to have a "whale of a woman through lack of choice" is now taking a stand against "shaming language". Can you not hear yourself? Is the pod soundproof?

I am still waiting for him to tell me/show me where I shamed him and said he was a 'weirdo loser' as he claimed I have done (in his post at 14.25.) Don't think he will be able to though, because I didn't.

I said 'a man who speaks so horribly about women is probably an incel,' but that was AFTER he said I accused him of being a weirdo loser. Are you going to direct me to post where said this please @31flavours ???

Nothing to say @31flavours ??? Gone a bit quiet there hmm?

It's just all part of unrealistic male expectations of women.

Be thin....also eat loads and slob out with me
Look amazing...but don't spend lots of time or money on it.
Work...but also be a housewife

@Comedycook

It's just all part of unrealistic male expectations of women.

Be thin....also eat loads and slob out with me
Look amazing...but don't spend lots of time or money on it.
Work...but also be a housewife

100% this. ^

Those that are so adamant that people do not look better with makeup, where do you draw the line? Do you moisturise, pluck eye brows, brush or style hair, paint nails, wear perfume, there are so many things we do as part of grooming to improve our appearance. I definitely agree that overuse of makeup can make you look worse but as others have said some natural looking products can work wonders even if it’s just a bit of lip balm.

Not just natural looking products. They’ll rip my scarlet lipstick from my cold dead hands because I love it and I give zero fucks what anyone else thinks about it.

Do you moisturise, pluck eye brows, brush or style hair, paint nails, wear perfume, there are so many things we do as part of grooming to improve our appearance.

This is the thing. I know plenty of women who don't wear makeup on a day to day basis but do other cosmetic enhancements that I don't do (at all) including getting manicures/painting nails, styling hair (my hair is dyed but I don't do anything on a daily basis except brush it), wearing perfume (I hardly wear it), removing pubic hair (I have never done this). I hardly thread eyebrows too.

It sounds weird but I feel like my grooming bandwidth is at its max with makeup and so I don't have any time or energy to do anything else other than put on contact lenses, brush my hair/teeth, go for an occasional threading/hair-dyeing appointment once or twice a year and maybe shave my legs and armpits occasionally (thank goodness that its tights and long sleeves most of the year in the UK). Do all the makeup free ladies also eschew their hair/brows/nails and go au naturel for everything else too? If they don't, whats the difference between putting on makeup and painting your nails/dyeing your hair from a vanity perspective?

The shaming language I am referring to is men being made to feel bad for seeing plus sized as what it is, which is fat Or holding any other standard for woman in the dating marketplace, when it routinely accepted that women can prejudice men on physical criteria.

As I have said previously dating apps have filters for women to filter out men below a certain height because female preference is widely accepted. Yet there is no weight filter on these apps for men to to filter out overweight women. Because it todays age body positivity is king (or queen) only if you’re a woman.

And yeah I stand by my point. Men who are below average overall have the lowest amount of options to pick from and will pick women who are objectively beneath or less attractive than them through lack of choice.

Also, why are you calling me that guy. I’m disappointed our connection has so quickly fizzled out. Now I’m any old user123 to you. :(

I wear false lashes sometimes for special events because they create a dramatic look that I like.

I so wish i could get them on anywhere other than half a centimetre above my natural lashes. I'd wear them all the flipping time.

I love make up when i do it properly and take the time and can be bothered. Right until i have to blow my nose (30 seconds later) because I'm allergic to flipping everything so my face looks great apart from my red nose.

I'm a lazy mare though so mascara, eyebrows and a bit of lippy will have to do my office mates

Yes, Mr Flavours, we know the only shaming language you complain about is the stuff that offends you. We know your whinging about plus size women doesn't count. Did you think we needed further explanation of your whining hypocrisy?

@Brefugee

I wear false lashes sometimes for special events because they create a dramatic look that I like.

I so wish i could get them on anywhere other than half a centimetre above my natural lashes. I'd wear them all the flipping time.

I love make up when i do it properly and take the time and can be bothered. Right until i have to blow my nose (30 seconds later) because I'm allergic to flipping everything so my face looks great apart from my red nose.

I'm a lazy mare though so mascara, eyebrows and a bit of lippy will have to do my office mates

Try using tweezers to put them on. It takes practise, but it can make it easier.

@MrOllivander

My (new ish) partner prefers me without makeup fuck knows why. I mean he isn't "don't wear it" but he always comments how pretty I am without it I think he needs new glasses TBH. He's 28 and I'm 37

Hmm I always feel comments like this are a bit controlling. Like it was fine for you to look good to attract him. But that you shouldn't look good now you are taken, in case you attract someone else and leave him.

This is assuming you look a little better with makeup, I do with some under eye camo and a touch of mascara. Otherwise you could just be really bad at doing your makeup and he's totally genuine 😂

@31flavours

The shaming language I am referring to is men being made to feel bad for seeing plus sized as what it is, which is fat Or holding any other standard for woman in the dating marketplace, when it routinely accepted that women can prejudice men on physical criteria.

As I have said previously dating apps have filters for women to filter out men below a certain height because female preference is widely accepted. Yet there is no weight filter on these apps for men to to filter out overweight women. Because it todays age body positivity is king (or queen) only if you’re a woman.

And yeah I stand by my point. Men who are below average overall have the lowest amount of options to pick from and will pick women who are objectively beneath or less attractive than them through lack of choice.

Also, why are you calling me that guy. I’m disappointed our connection has so quickly fizzled out. Now I’m any old user123 to you. :(

I completely agree with you that unattractive men have very few options when dating. Even fewer, when despite their own meagre offering in the looks department, they call certain women whales ( which is different from calling plus size fat.) Where I disagree is that said men then date women 'beneath' them, by which I assume you primarily mean overweight women. For one thing, being overweight is not of itself a bar to a woman being considered attractive by a great many men. For another, the type of man your description conjures would, I think, struggle to find a woman who could bring less to the table than himself. I fully accept your point that its not as easy to find a partner as an unattractive man, but that's too bad isn't it? You could always try to improve your appearance, go to the gym, get a great haircut (if you have hair) buy the type of clothes attractive men wear, and try to develop your personality; be amusing, interesting, nice and so forth. It won't elevate a 2 to a ten, but you could end up a respectable 5.

@31flavours

The shaming language I am referring to is men being made to feel bad for seeing plus sized as what it is, which is fat Or holding any other standard for woman in the dating marketplace, when it routinely accepted that women can prejudice men on physical criteria.

As I have said previously dating apps have filters for women to filter out men below a certain height because female preference is widely accepted. Yet there is no weight filter on these apps for men to to filter out overweight women. Because it todays age body positivity is king (or queen) only if you’re a woman.

And yeah I stand by my point. Men who are below average overall have the lowest amount of options to pick from and will pick women who are objectively beneath or less attractive than them through lack of choice.

Also, why are you calling me that guy. I’m disappointed our connection has so quickly fizzled out. Now I’m any old user123 to you. :(

@31flavours

Couldn't point to where I 'shamed' you and called you a 'weird loser' then?

Nope, obviously not, because I NEVER SAID IT!

Kindly don't make up stuff about me that is not true, and say I have said things I HAVE NOT SAID... You just lose the argument and make yourself look very silly.

@DrSbaitso

Yes, Mr Flavours, we know the only shaming language you complain about is the stuff that offends you. We know your whinging about plus size women doesn't count. Did you think we needed further explanation of your whining hypocrisy?

This. ^ Calls women WHALES and makes disgusting and disparaging remarks about women, and then throws his toys out of his cot when someone says something vaguely offensive about men.

It wasn't even offensive. People have said that men don't know much about makeup and some people have experiences of men who weaponised it as a control tactic. That's it.

Dehumanising women, calling them "whales", accusing them of "spouting" when they appear on TV and talking about them as if they were prize sows: that's offensive. To then start whining about "shaming language"...that's a frigging joke.

To add, Mr Flavaofthemonth or whatever your nick is, the people who spoke sharply to you were addressing you, personally, in response to your nasty misogynistic ranting. You, on the other hand, spat bile at womenkind in general. Perhaps you think you're the first dudebro to rock up here to try that and we were going to be so blindsided?

A man told me once that when men say they like ‘naturally beautiful’ women they mean one that still looks ok the morning after….

I haven’t worn make up since I retired apart from when I had a professional makeup done for a black tie do. It looked ok but it really didn’t make the dramatic difference I thought it would.

@CounsellorTroi

I haven’t worn make up since I retired apart from when I had a professional makeup done for a black tie do. It looked ok but it really didn’t make the dramatic difference I thought it would.

Interesting. Its not the intended takeaway from the thread I realise, but I now can't stop wondering if I too could look loads better in make up! (if I had it done properly rather than slap on a bit of mascara and lipstick).

@onlychildhamster

My DH wore makeup for our wedding (just some concealer, brows and bronzer at the temples, I think). He was amazed at the change (esp in photos) and said to me, now I know why you love makeup. He decided to get makeup professionally done when he realized how tired he looked in our pre wedding photo shoot. I think he looked nice but he disagreed.

If makeup makes you look better, then I think both men and women shouldn't feel ashamed of wanting to use it. I think a lot of men aren't exposed to makeup; a lot of them would probably love it if they had their makeup professionally done/were taught how to use it.

Jayne Fincher said that it's difficult to photograph the male members of the royal family because they refuse to wear makeup, apparently it helps prevent the face from shining.