If you left the corporate world to go into teaching what was the biggest shock?

[coodawoodashooda]

Just wondering. Usually we have threads from fed up teachers. Im a teacher, not looking for a fight. Just interested.

@Shinyandnew1

You do realise many jobs do 12 hour days as the norm

Yes-like teaching really.

I wonder how many of the people in those other jobs are routinely called workshy, lazy part timers?

Where are you getting 'work-shy lazy part timers' from?

That certainly isn't my view!

Just because I'm pointing out that other jobs also have long hours doesn't mean I magically started name-calling!

Defensive and unreasonable much? I do hope you interact with your students better if they say something you don't like (even if it factually correct).

@Fairislefandango i beg to differ! I always had great feedback and good results.

@Shinyandnew1

You do realise many jobs do 12 hour days as the norm

Yes-like teaching really.

I wonder how many of the people in those other jobs are routinely called workshy, lazy part timers?

Police are always criticised, nurses are, nhs receptionists are, GP's constantly, I guess basically anyone in the public sector gets criticised and private sector workers probably don't so much because no one really thinks about them. Although bankers do get criticised a lot too but their salary probably makes up for that haha

And while we're on in @Fairislefandango the ability to feel challenged is not a one size fits all. What challenges you may not challenge me...and vice versa. I doesn't have to be a negative aspect...it's just how I felt!

@Fairislefandangoi beg to differ! I always had great feedback and good results.

I'm intrigued to know what you found so unchallenging about it. I suppose we all have different definitions of 'challenging' though.

I have no doubt ALL teachers work VERY hard. They work very hard indeed and some are exceptional and some are not Like any professional

However I've never ever noticed a collective of professional people that can "woe is me" like teachers can on a Mumsnet thread.
And are sooooooo defensive of the 13 week holidays.

Ha - cross-posted.

I would have thought that trying to engage even the weakest, most troubled and most difficult students and enabling them to fulfill their potential, and finding new and exciting ways to present your subject, would always be a challenge. If you didn't think so, then I guess I'm not surprised teaching wasn't for you. And if you did all those things perfectly without finding them a challenge, then I think you probably should be in charge of the whole education system!

It's very true that teachers have a Woe is me attitude.

No, I've never been a teacher, but if I was, I would have loved a scheduled lesson plan for the year. Yes I may tweak it, but fuck me, it would make my life much easier.

Don't moan at an easy solution.

I left a corporate job to train as a primary teacher, and it was so much harder than I thought it would be. I thought that, working in a high stress, deadline driven environment would stand me in good stead for the pressures but I was so wrong. Sixty hour weeks were the norm, very little support, no TA, most challenging class, and I didn't feel that my PGCE prepared me for it at all. It was like hosting the biggest and longest children's birthday party, every day on your own. Unbeknownst to me I was perimenopausal and the anxiety caused by that didn't help either. I felt so responsible for the children too that I would worry and fret about every interaction before I went to sleep. It was awful, and I ended up being signed off with stress eight months in.
I went back to my lovely desk in an office, with seven hour days, and the happy knowledge that I know exactly what I'm doing.
If anyone ever asks, I recommend being a TA for a few years, and then learning on the job in a school you know. Going from volunteer reading experience to a short course at uni* and then having complete responsibility for a class is not enough when you're mid-forties IMO.

• I had placements in schools, but still not enough to give me all the experience I needed to face a class and feel prepared.

[quote crocus776]@Shinyandnew1

I didn't say is wasn't hard, I said it didn't need to be so hard.

A big difference. One that would be rectified in a corporate world.[/quote]
Look, bluntly, as one who has worked in both the corporate world and as a teacher, the people this thread was started for, I am telling you categorically that you don't know what you are talking about. The strategies you seem to think would work would not. For the reasons given across this thread and many more.

That absolutely refuse to countenance this is one of the real bugbears of many teachers..

In a different industry the whole lesson plan thing may have been done for you, standardised and rolled out nationwide to increase resource efficiency.... would the quality of lessons be maintained though? Probably not. Would it meet the outcome of a differentiated lesson for different needs etc? Probably not.
You may get more complaints etc.
So it may seem obvious but I think we should listen to the experts.

Yeah, I'm not convinced that declaring teachers are not paid for their holidays really helps their case.

It doesn't help our case at all, and I really wish fellow teachers would shut up about it. It's meaningless and just sounds whingy.

I've taught for forty years. People will always go on about our holidays. They did it from my first day on the job through to my last. It's a fact of life and if you're going to be a teacher you have to grow a thick skin about it and either refuse to rise to the bait, or have a humorous response ready and then change the subject.

@Dejavuvuzella

How lazy private sector workers are and how little fecking work they do.

You clearly work in/with a different part of the civil service than I do - the people I interact with are almost without exception very smart and hardworking. I've worked in a fast-paced private sector role before joining the civil service for my current job, so have seen both worlds first hand.

'At the moment all public sector professions are being overworked and underpaid in the service of the ideology of the super-rich'

I never thought I'd say this but I'm fairly certain that many public sector roles exist only to look like something is being done. I've recently started a public sector management role and I think it might be a phoney position. Very upsetting and I feel like a fraud. I was so excited. That's all I can say about it.

Back to teaching, when I did my stint I was most surprised by the lack of autonomy, the cliques and the weird power structures. Bizarre world.

@whenwillthemadnessend

I have no doubt ALL teachers work VERY hard. They work very hard indeed and some are exceptional and some are not Like any professional

However I've never ever noticed a collective of professional people that can "woe is me" like teachers can on a Mumsnet thread.
And are sooooooo defensive of the 13 week holidays.

To be scrupulously fair... there are few, if any, other professions that feature so regularly, that so many feel qualified to critique so much or indeed one that so many MNers do or have done.

It is uniquely placed, it seems

@saraclara

Not being paid for my holidays. Yep- for all those people who moan about 13 weeks off a year or whatever, we don't get paid for that time!

For goodess' sake, why does this get trotted out all the time by MN teachers? It's something I never heard from any of my colleagues in my lifetime teaching career. No-one whinged about it, no-one even mentioned it.

We're paid for the job. Our salary is split over 12 months. We know the salary when we go into it, and the way it's structured simply isn't worth a thought. The more people who trot it out on MN teacher threads the more stupid we appear.

I get why teachers are defensive. We get so much shit aimed in our direction, and as a pp mentioned, that creates a bunker mentality. But statements like that (and the one that claimed that NO OTHER JOB involves working outside normal hours) make me cringe.

Totally agree with this You get a salary. And if you work the other way -ie my salary is effectively massive higher because of my holidays -I earn massively more than in ani the job with comparable hours/responsibilities (no line management etc) I worked at more hours in corporate than now. Am now on week 2of my 3 week Easter holiday.

No, I've never been a teacher, but if I was, I would have loved a scheduled lesson plan for the year. Yes I may tweak it, but fuck me, it would make my life much easier. Don't moan at an easy solution.

It's not a solution. If you've never been a teacher, how on earth can you know what would make your life easier as a teacher or what you 'would have loved'? You've got an idea which you reckon would make teaching better. I expect that no amount of experienced teachers telling you otherwise would convince you that you're wrong. It's a bit like mansplaining

I think teachers in the U.K. have a hard deal. I'm in Ireland and teachers do not do half the hours they do. They school is empty and shut by half 3/4 depending on finish time. Their planning is not the same as it's workbook led. They get EPV days... 5 personal days to take off whenever they like...on top of their holidays (which are longer!) so if they have a graduation or wedding etc they can go if needed. They pay starts at 36k ish! They may do some work at home but they certainly are not slaves to the job...

Wow a compketely different world!! We should learn from Ireland.

My biggest shocks were:

• Not being able to go to the loo when I wanted
• Playground mentality follows some people into adulthood. I couldn't believe the bitchiness of some staff members when I started
• How much hard work it is to get children making progress, but how rewarding it is to do so.

@Fairislefandango

No no a man, a women. A women who worked in a corporate world and retired early 40's. Very efficient and competent at my job. Thank you.

Yes, lots of teachers may be telling me what's important, however you all seem to be struggling to do your jobs.....next time you're writing out lesson plans, ask yourself, could someone else have done it better? Am I so amazing that only I can do it? Do I have time to do it? Keep asking yourself that!

James Kirkup has published an interesting article about education's treatment during the pandemic in the updated Times (basically in tomorrow's paper) suggesting National Education Service and pointing out that 20 years ago, health and education received similar per capita funding. Health spending has effectively been doubled. No wonder teachers feel as if they are pushing water uphill.

James Kirkup has published an interesting article about education's treatment during the pandemic in the updated Times (basically in tomorrow's paper) suggesting National Education Service and pointing out that 20 years ago, health and education received similar per capita funding. Health spending has effectively been doubled. No wonder teachers feel as if they are pushing water uphill.

I'll never understand why teaching isn't standardised, every teacher should be issued with a lesson plan, work for basic/intermediate and advanced ability. Expecting teachers to be excellent lesson planners when they could be provided with the gold standard

I don't think this is stupid, it is what happens in other countries. There has to be a level of standardisation, otherwise they'd all be working the hours English teachers do. Which they don't - we've already heard about Ireland and I know German teachers don't work silly hours and holidays are (largely) holidays.

next time you're writing out lesson plans, ask yourself, could someone else have done it better? Am I so amazing that only I can do it? Do I have time to do it? Keep asking yourself that

it is a very good point - teachers absolutely do think about continuous improvement, but not in the way that a lot of companies do, with Lean Six Sigma etc. I remember saying to my boss that it was much more difficult to apply those principles to knowledge work (as opposed to making cars on a production line, where they originated) but she said anything could be made into a process and made more efficient. It might not be perfect but if it works for 80% of kids and saves 80% of time, there is a value there. And then teachers can spend the time they've freed up on the other 20% of kids. I know people won't like the idea, but it definitely makes some sense to me.