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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ask regarding COVID - what does 'we just have to live with it' look like in real life?

427 replies

Fay2121 · 04/04/2022 17:26

I keep hearing the phrase.

What is the reality of 'we just have to live with it'.

OP posts:
Cornettoninja · 06/04/2022 09:35

[quote WeddingFavour]**@Cornettoninja* I’m seeing a disconnect between these statements…*

No disconnect. PP is saying that if you are actively unwell and contagious you shouldn't visit. Not avoid visiting for months on end on the off chance you might be asymptomatic. I'm sorry to hear about your father but if anything you're proving the opposite point. He's had covid twice despite restrictions. The time he has left to see his family has been limited due to restrictions and it still didn't stop him catching it. Also, antivirals could still be offered to care home patients if they meet medical criteria, same as any other patients.[/quote]
Only my experience, but restrictions for my df’s nursing home haven’t impacted in the sense we haven’t been able to see him for months on ends. Prolonged periods of 2-3 weeks, yes and it’s absolutely shit but we haven’t been kept apart for months.

I do see what you’re saying and given the high rates of infection it’s like pissing in the ocean, BUT morally, it’s not a black and white decision to expose a location which by default is caring for the CEV to an infection that stands a good chance of killing them, even if that’s likely to happen imminently anyway.

To draw on personal experience again, a conversation with my df’s consultants where they were tasked with explaining the prognosis included that his heart was too weak and damaged to even contemplate a procedure which may offer him more time. This procedure would likely kill him. My df’s feeling was that he’d rather have the procedure and just not wake up if it didn’t work than suffering the waiting for his heart to finally give up, I think I’d prefer that too but that’s not something any medical professional could agree to knowing his chance of survival. I see the nursing/care home / hospital situation as the same. There are very good arguments against their current policies but the barrier of knowingly fatally exposing them to something is a huge one.

Imho there is still very much an expectation that cases will naturally decline and covid will become less prevalent meaning that these policies will have to be enacted less. I don’t know if that’s going to happen, I hope it does.

On the point of antivirals, I genuinely don’t think my df would be given them, I could be wrong but I would understand if he wasn’t. Antivirals are also part of the reason testing will (or should) continue to seek out covid in risk groups because they have to be started so early in the infection. Things might have changed widely but for good reasons like this, there are groups that just aren’t there yet and simply won’t be able to catch up with everything else until there are either lower rates of infection or better options provided by science.

HoldingTheDoor · 06/04/2022 09:42

Very ill people in ICU! Whatever next?

It's not news to any of us I think, that Covid makes some people incredibly ill and kills others. Just as some feel mildly ill or even just tired or indeed perfectly fine. I'm not sure why it's being presented as a revelation.

Kreuzberg · 06/04/2022 09:48

@HoldingTheDoor What's your issue ? Covid was never like the flu or a cold as you are suggesting. Even the common symptom of loss of smell is now thought to be due to tissue damage to the primary olfactory cortex. Researchers aren't sure whether that damage is permanent.

HoldingTheDoor · 06/04/2022 09:53

I didn't actually compare it to colds or flu but I don't see how it's any more ridiculous to compare it with the former than it is to compare it with HIV yet posters were doing exactly that yesterday. The same posters who'll pounce on anyone who dares to mention flu and Covid in the same sentence.

Kreuzberg · 06/04/2022 10:05

HIV comparisons are ridiculous agreed. So there goes your generalisation Wink

Cornettoninja · 06/04/2022 10:06

@HoldingTheDoor

Very ill people in ICU! Whatever next?

It's not news to any of us I think, that Covid makes some people incredibly ill and kills others. Just as some feel mildly ill or even just tired or indeed perfectly fine. I'm not sure why it's being presented as a revelation.

Is it being presented as a revelation or is it reenforcing the fact that it is still happening? In far lesser numbers but it’s still a factor that didn’t exist for ICU’s in 2019 and is therefore an added pressure.

Why’s it such a problem to recognise that?

HoldingTheDoor · 06/04/2022 10:07

So no it's not the cold or flu but it's not Ebola or HIV either.

Personally though for me, in some respects a cold has been worse. I appreciate this isn't the norm but a cold floors me for 3-4 months(sometimes longer). I've had to go to hospital for treatment a few times now so I'm not underestimating how awful it is to have PVFS.

I also have "long Covid" which I've had intermittently since my first bout of Covid, which made me feel pretty awful, in November 2020. It occurs every 7-10 days, though it's gone away for a month before returning. It has lasted much longer than my cold related post viral fatigue but it hasn't been so severe or constant and it wouldn't stop me from working. I appreciate that others have it much worse and it can be utterly debilitating for some, and perhaps I'll get a worse dose on my third infection but I'm not going to worry about it.

It's not that I don't think it can happen to me. It's precisely because a lot of very unexpected things have happened to me and to my family(freak accidents, developing epilepsy and debilitating conditions out of the blue, sudden unexpected deaths etc) that I see little point in me fretting over it. To me it's just one of 101 things that could happen.

HoldingTheDoor · 06/04/2022 10:13

The tougher rules here in Scotland seem to be making no difference and even China, who has had insanely harsh restrictions, is struggling. So, no I don't think the mitigations that people keep mentioning are effective. We have far less control over it than some think we do yet for some reason people seem determined that we should keep doing the same things, regardless of the cost, even though they don't seem to be making any difference.

HoldingTheDoor · 06/04/2022 10:14

HIV comparisons are ridiculous agreed. So there goes your generalisation

What generalisation?. I'm talking of specific posters. I don't think I've even seen your name around before today, so I wasn't referring to you.

Cornettoninja · 06/04/2022 10:20

@HoldingTheDoor care to explain why comparisons/parallels with the societal response to HIV are ridiculous?

TheKeatingFive · 06/04/2022 10:23

yet for some reason people seem determined that we should keep doing the same things, regardless of the cost, even though they don't seem to be making any difference.

This is what strikes me.

I feel some are coming from a 'something must be done' mentality and on one level don't even care if it makes a difference.

But all of these measures have a cost. Perhaps governments should have been clearer about that fact from the get go and stressed the fact that like everything else it's cost/benefit analysis. Some people dont like that phrase being used in relation to covid, which tells its own tale.

HardyBuckette · 06/04/2022 10:27

Mmm I think the experiences and messaging of the past couple of years hasn't necessarily prepared the population well for a point when there's not actually a great deal of substance that we can do. The transition away from strict regulations has been hard for some people to get their heads round too.

user1497787065 · 06/04/2022 10:51

My DH who has his own business had a call from a business acquaintance last night who he had
Spent time with on Saturday to tell him he had just tested positive.

My DH will hopefully not have contracted Covid from him but if he has and is wiped out by it he will remain at home. If he is infected but not unwell he will continue to work as most people would if they weren't being paid to stay at home.

Sugarplumfairy65 · 06/04/2022 11:03

For me it means keeping away from people as much as possible unless we can be certain that they dont currently have covid.
I've had 4 vaccines so far with absolutely no immune response.
I have a t cell cancer so cant rely on them.
The only thing I expect of other people is that they dont come in my home without testing using tests that I can provide if necessary.
The rest of the world can get on with whatever they want to do

Cornettoninja · 06/04/2022 13:01

@HardyBuckette

Mmm I think the experiences and messaging of the past couple of years hasn't necessarily prepared the population well for a point when there's not actually a great deal of substance that we can do. The transition away from strict regulations has been hard for some people to get their heads round too.
I think you make a good point.
HardyBuckette · 06/04/2022 14:27

Thank you

peaceanddove · 06/04/2022 14:59

It's very curious. People I know who have made a huge meal out of Covid are precisely the people I would have predicted to make a huge deal of it. They seem to have caught it multiple times, lots of residual health issues, they read every word about it and are 100% up to date with all the latest research. It's almost become like a hobby for them.

Whereas, the people I know who have pretty much breezed through Covid, are exactly the ones I would have predicted to. They pretty much all had it, but very mild symptoms and no talk of Long Covid. They're not remotely interested in the details and just want to get on with their lives. Covid just isn't discussed in any social or work setting.

Cheesechips · 06/04/2022 15:34

@peaceanddove

It's very curious. People I know who have made a huge meal out of Covid are precisely the people I would have predicted to make a huge deal of it. They seem to have caught it multiple times, lots of residual health issues, they read every word about it and are 100% up to date with all the latest research. It's almost become like a hobby for them.

Whereas, the people I know who have pretty much breezed through Covid, are exactly the ones I would have predicted to. They pretty much all had it, but very mild symptoms and no talk of Long Covid. They're not remotely interested in the details and just want to get on with their lives. Covid just isn't discussed in any social or work setting.

Wholeheartedly agree with this!
JesmondDene123 · 06/04/2022 19:30

@peaceanddove

It's very curious. People I know who have made a huge meal out of Covid are precisely the people I would have predicted to make a huge deal of it. They seem to have caught it multiple times, lots of residual health issues, they read every word about it and are 100% up to date with all the latest research. It's almost become like a hobby for them.

Whereas, the people I know who have pretty much breezed through Covid, are exactly the ones I would have predicted to. They pretty much all had it, but very mild symptoms and no talk of Long Covid. They're not remotely interested in the details and just want to get on with their lives. Covid just isn't discussed in any social or work setting.

Nope, very sadly experience means I don't agree.

My DM, as mentioned up thread, strong professional leader, absolutely minimum absences from her job, very together and rational. Not particularly worried about COVID, vaccinated, doing the right things.

Now look at her, delirium to the point of a danger to herself, even soiling herself. Days later so ill.

Quidity · 06/04/2022 20:04

@JesmondDene123 so sorry to read about your Mum's experiences.

It frustrates me when this whole complex argument ends up with simplistic interpretations. The big deal is that it is a novel virus and we still don't know a lot about the effects. FWIW as I said upthread I have experience of the whole spectrum of Covid from previously fit and healthy people ending up in ITU and frail 90 somethings having nothing more than a sneeze. People with no previous history of anxiety having difficulty coping with the restrictions and messages , people who I would consider rule followers who found they could not, and people who you might have predicted would crumble turning into community heros.

@HardyBuckette also makes a very good point - messaging about Covid has been inconsistent and it's no surprise that whole sections of the population are struggling. It's a mess

Overthebow · 06/04/2022 20:31

@HardyBuckette

Mmm I think the experiences and messaging of the past couple of years hasn't necessarily prepared the population well for a point when there's not actually a great deal of substance that we can do. The transition away from strict regulations has been hard for some people to get their heads round too.
Yes exactly. Some people don’t seem to get that Covid isn’t going to go away and we can’t keep restrictions forever. People need to get used to the idea that we are now living with covid, like we do other viruses, and this is how it will be from now on. If some people want to stay in their houses to avoid covid then fine, that’s up to them, but they will be doing that forever as it won’t be going away. I personally want to enjoy life so I am getting on with it as normal from now on.
Frannyhy · 06/04/2022 22:05

I had an Asda delivery tonight and reminded the driver that I’d asked for my order to be left in the porch. He said, “That’s alright, I’ll don’t mind bringing it in, I’ll get another two weeks off work if I get Covid again.”

Shock
TeaPacks · 07/04/2022 03:17

@peaceanddove

It's very curious. People I know who have made a huge meal out of Covid are precisely the people I would have predicted to make a huge deal of it. They seem to have caught it multiple times, lots of residual health issues, they read every word about it and are 100% up to date with all the latest research. It's almost become like a hobby for them.

Whereas, the people I know who have pretty much breezed through Covid, are exactly the ones I would have predicted to. They pretty much all had it, but very mild symptoms and no talk of Long Covid. They're not remotely interested in the details and just want to get on with their lives. Covid just isn't discussed in any social or work setting.

that is curious.

I wonder people who have suffered the most from Covid and have residual health issues are the ones who read about and are most intersted in the research? Whereas the ones who had mild covid and no long covid issues and now are totally fine aren't interested in it?

It's almost like having your health directly affected by something makes you more intersted in it! Goodness, whatever next?!

carefullycourageous · 07/04/2022 06:06

@peaceanddove

It's very curious. People I know who have made a huge meal out of Covid are precisely the people I would have predicted to make a huge deal of it. They seem to have caught it multiple times, lots of residual health issues, they read every word about it and are 100% up to date with all the latest research. It's almost become like a hobby for them.

Whereas, the people I know who have pretty much breezed through Covid, are exactly the ones I would have predicted to. They pretty much all had it, but very mild symptoms and no talk of Long Covid. They're not remotely interested in the details and just want to get on with their lives. Covid just isn't discussed in any social or work setting.

This is total rollocks, and exactly what was said about post-viral effects in the 80s, 90s, that it was all in the mind. Biscuit
FishFingerSandwiches4Tea · 07/04/2022 06:17

@peaceanddove

It's very curious. People I know who have made a huge meal out of Covid are precisely the people I would have predicted to make a huge deal of it. They seem to have caught it multiple times, lots of residual health issues, they read every word about it and are 100% up to date with all the latest research. It's almost become like a hobby for them.

Whereas, the people I know who have pretty much breezed through Covid, are exactly the ones I would have predicted to. They pretty much all had it, but very mild symptoms and no talk of Long Covid. They're not remotely interested in the details and just want to get on with their lives. Covid just isn't discussed in any social or work setting.

I agree with this to an extent, in that the many people I hear of who 'took to their beds' while ill with covid are the ones who were able to indulge themselves like this of you see what I mean. When I had it I was jumping on a trampoline with autistic ds in winter with a raging fever. It wasn't my top choice of activity to put it mildly, but I didn't have much of a choice in the matter.

In saying that, i think what you're saying is rather too simplistic. People were and are very ill and dying from covid. That's not because they read about how ill they could be ffs, they ARE ill.

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