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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ask regarding COVID - what does 'we just have to live with it' look like in real life?

427 replies

Fay2121 · 04/04/2022 17:26

I keep hearing the phrase.

What is the reality of 'we just have to live with it'.

OP posts:
MangyInseam · 05/04/2022 17:40

@Cornettoninja

It's very reasonable if you have norovirus or the flu to avoid visiting an elderly person in a nursing home, or for that matter going anywhere you don't have to

I’m seeing a disconnect between these statements…

That is in no way comparable to telling people they cannot have visitors, or go out, for six months, or even three months. Even if it is to "protect others"

It only works if you don’t think covid is actually as much of a concern to this group as norovirus or flu?

Largely restrictions are in place, in nursing homes certainly, to protect residents, not others. The frequency of this happening will depend on the circulation in the wider community, when one resident has covid symptomatically its impossible to ignore it.

Essentially this is one of the last groups to Come out of the pandemic and we’re crossing fingers that circulation in the community drops drastically so it isn’t an ongoing issue and becomes something that is encountered as often as norovirus or flu.

The rest of the country may have made a conscious decision that we’re happy living with covid but there’s still sections of society where that’s essentially a death wish and not a freedom anyone with a duty of care can facilitate.

I have some personal stake in this, my df is currently eol with heart failure and other diagnoses and a DNR in place and resident in a nursing home meaning my face to face contact with has been and continues to affected by covid restrictions. He’s had it twice, once he was completely asymptomatic and once he was miserably ill but not enough to be any closer to death. It’s beyond shit but I don’t know if he could comprehend what the decision to opt out of restrictions actually might mean, he’s making his peace with dying but everyone’s focussed on that being a good death not one where he’s surrounded by people in full on PPE and experiencing unnecessary pain and fear. Truthfully there’s very little that can be offered to this group even in terms of palliative care, no one is under any illusion that antivirals or interventions will even be offered. Those with responsibility for their care shouldn’t be asked to not do what their job is, caring for and protecting their clients.

No, there is no disconnect and I am honestly not sure why you think there is.

If you are actively ill with something more serious like a flu, it may be best not to visit someone vulnerable. Certainly you should ask them, in any case. If they live in a place like a senior's center they may choose to be more careful than they would in their own home, and everyone understands that.

This is quite different than telling adult people that they are not allowed to have any visitors, or telling them they cannot leave their institutional facilities, for fear they may come in contact with an illness from out in the world.

If someone told you, in your own home, that you were not allowed to leave or have guests, in case you might spread illness, that would be considered some kind of coercive control.

Older people still have all the normal rights of other adults. Being cared for in a facility does not mean that they are now sub-human people who can have others dictate their movements.

We have had seniors restricted in their facilities now for two years of covid. In some of these places, people's average stay is 18 months, pre-covid. Not because they get better and move out, but because they die. They have spent the last years of their lives locked in, and died relatively alone, in order to protect them from dying from covid.

I really don't understand how people think that is ok, or how it is ok to tell people in their home - because it is their home - that they can't go out or see their loved ones. If there are people who want complete isolation there needs to be other arrangements for them - there should be no question of them inflicting that on others.

carefullycourageous · 05/04/2022 17:43

@SilverGlitterBaubles

I spent yesterday in a meeting with a group at work of in a small poorly ventilated room. 2 of the group clearly had 'colds' but said they had tested negative so you just have to trust in this. We shall see how many have the cold next week. It is actually amazing to think only 12 months ago the idea of being anywhere near a work colleague was considered risky.
Our work have asked anyone with cold symptoms to stay away, and people are following this.

I think it is annoying that a window can not be opened more often tbh, it woudl help with so many minor illnesses.

MangyInseam · 05/04/2022 17:49

Cornettoninja

And I'll just add about your dad, I'm really sorry that's what is facing him, my aunt last year had a similar death, not from covid, but because of covid the hospital was very restricted. It's completely shit.

But this is a situation that has been created by restrictions. Elderly people who die often have scenarios like that where they will die, in the immediate sense, of a respiratory infection. My grandmother died over a few days, in hospital, of pneumonia. In reality, she had cancer, and a broken leg, and was no longer willing to be treated to prolong things. The difference was she was able to all the visitors she liked, many people were with her when she died, her nurses weren't done up like it was a zombie apocalypse.

Those in a similar situation with covid need to be offered proper care from people and have normal access to visitors. That is part of what "living with covid" needs to include," getting away from these kinds of crazy situations.

Even people working in areas of hospitals with full PPE work correctly are spreading covid around, those kinds of precautions just aren't that effective. They shouldn't justify that kind of treatment of palliative patients.

WeddingFavour · 05/04/2022 17:50

@likemindedarseholes Genuinely curious as I'm a HCP too, why do you stop their antipsychotics? What blood results does it knock off, WCC? LFTs? I have to play devil's advocate re the rest of your post though. If we genuinely stopped testing and isolating and closing wards due to covid, and stopped delaying transfers or discharges due to it, and stopped making staff stay home even if they're fit to work, the rest of the impact would lessen.

toomuchlaundry · 05/04/2022 17:56

@Awalkintime This states schools should not be using their stock of LFTs anymore unless advised to

lbhflearningpartnership.com/our_news/covid19-update-to-all-education-and-childcare-settings-and-provider/

Eyedropeyeflop · 05/04/2022 18:21

@WeddingFavour

Completely agree.

LittleBearPad · 05/04/2022 18:23

[quote toomuchlaundry]@Awalkintime This states schools should not be using their stock of LFTs anymore unless advised to

lbhflearningpartnership.com/our_news/covid19-update-to-all-education-and-childcare-settings-and-provider/[/quote]
Ours was still handing them out last week to get as many to parents as possible

Awalkintime · 05/04/2022 18:27

LittleBearPad
The DfE just say it is no longer necessary to test. We are still using ours and will carry on until we are told not to if staff want to.

LittleBearPad · 05/04/2022 18:29

@Awalkintime

LittleBearPad The DfE just say it is no longer necessary to test. We are still using ours and will carry on until we are told not to if staff want to.
Yes but some parents will still want to - not so much for school (frankly at the moment that is utterly pointless given case rates) but trips to see vulnerable relatives etc.
Bizawit · 05/04/2022 18:29

@Sharrowgirl

You catch a virus, you feel a bit ill for a few days and when you feel better you go back to school or work. Like you did all your life, prior to 2020.
this
LittleBearPad · 05/04/2022 18:30

But agreed that if staff want them and you have them then they should be used. Might as well

Awalkintime · 05/04/2022 18:35

@LittleBearPad

But agreed that if staff want them and you have them then they should be used. Might as well
We rarely gave them to parents, we never had enough and our shipments always ended up at other schools instead of ours. We did get 5000 masks delivered last week with no idea who they came from!
AngeloMysterioso · 05/04/2022 18:51

And for what? So Sheila can go to Morrisons after testing positive?

If Sheila feels perfectly fine but has no food in her fridge and no other means of getting some then yes, I see no reason why Sheila shouldn’t be allowed to go and buy some bloody groceries, as long as she takes measures to minimise the risk to others.

That’s the situation I was in yesterday. DH and I both positive but had fuck all food in the house. I waited til after 9pm so the streets and supermarket would be quiet, walked instead of getting the bus (3km each way), wore two masks and drenched my hands in sanitiser before I went in.

HaudYerWheeshtYaWeeBellend · 05/04/2022 18:58

Teachers with no access to LFTs unless they pay for them out of their own pockets, coming to work with a temperature and flu symptoms, battling through 10-12 hours of a highly stressful day because apparently it doesn't spread in schools, only hospitals and prisons

Haven’t read the full thread.

That’s the same as most workplaces, teacher or not, supermarket staff come into contact with thousands of people a day, I’m in contact with cover 100/150 per day.

If your unwell then you call in sick and use your sick leave, same way you would if you had the common cold or worse flu.

LittleBearPad · 05/04/2022 19:00

We rarely gave them to parents, we never had enough and our shipments always ended up at other schools instead of ours. We did get 5000 masks delivered last week with no idea who they came from!

Confused maybe useful for art… possibly. Maybe

Fortunately our school seemed to have a useful source. I am well stocked

toomuchlaundry · 05/04/2022 19:01

@Bizawit but I don't remember my son's school not having enough staff to stay safely open pre-COVID. He is currently at home with remote provision and his is not the only school in our area having to close certain year groups. And the teachers are sick not just isolating, so assume this will continue after Easter too. In fact DS is currently having to self study an A-level subject as his subject teacher is too sick to do remote lesson

OfstedOffred · 05/04/2022 19:01

Airlines don't usually cancel a 100 flights because staff have a cold.

People don't usually stay off work with a cold either, but it's now culturally ingrained that you can and should be off work with even mild Covid... many of the staff shortages are people choosing to isolate who have mild symptoms.

carefullycourageous · 05/04/2022 19:14

@OfstedOffred

Airlines don't usually cancel a 100 flights because staff have a cold.

People don't usually stay off work with a cold either, but it's now culturally ingrained that you can and should be off work with even mild Covid... many of the staff shortages are people choosing to isolate who have mild symptoms.

Hmm, I think you are putting your own spin on this.

I was reading today that for many adults COVID will be much the worst virus they would expect to have. It affects many adults far more intensely than flu, and of course it is so very prevalent so we are far more likely to catch it than flu. That is going to cause concerning absence levels.

These comparisons to colds are so unhelpful, and I think designed to mislead, because COVID is far more unpleasant than a cold for even triple vaccinated people.

I am not personally thrilled at getting COVID every few months, it is not my idea of fun. A cold I couldn;t care less about, for the obvious reason it is much less likely to make me feel properly rough.

HoveringDonkeyofKnock · 05/04/2022 19:21

We haven’t reached endemic equilibrium yet. It will take a few more years. Until then it will probably keep coming in waves with lots of people sick at the same time.
Some people are still quite ill with it.
It isn’t yet behaving like endemic colds or flu.

toomuchlaundry · 05/04/2022 19:26

I think a lot of people are getting D&V symptoms with this current variant so can’t come into work anyway even if they don’t feel too poorly

lovescats3 · 05/04/2022 19:45

2 points.its rife in republic of Ireland atm. Omicron may be milder but are we all forgetting the urgency with which booster ie 3rd dose of vaccine was rolled out to combat it

lovescats3 · 05/04/2022 19:48

I think this talk of living with it what does that mean? Certainly atm it's very difficult people seem to be re infected after having it a couple of months ago and lots of disruption..it doesn't feel like normal life in 2019

JesmondDene123 · 05/04/2022 19:50

Thank you to those that showed concern when I expressed, upthread, what 'living with COVID' means just now.

Yes, symptoms are definitely delirium caused by COVID. Blood and urine tests carried out by the GP are clear. No additional signs of a stroke. Not dehydrated.

GP has diagnosed COVID delirium. She is still behaving very oddly, not in her right mind and is quite unsafe.

She is very ill and nothing we can do to help her recover.

MrOllivander · 05/04/2022 20:34

12hr ambulance waits
My mum has been on the floor 4hrs and they reckon an ambulance will be another 8hrs. Then the wait to handover to hospital
That's living with covid

LittleBearPad · 05/04/2022 20:37

@lovescats3

2 points.its rife in republic of Ireland atm. Omicron may be milder but are we all forgetting the urgency with which booster ie 3rd dose of vaccine was rolled out to combat it
Yes but to add a note of caution the nature of Omicron wasn’t known at the time