To ask regarding COVID - what does 'we just have to live with it' look like in real life?

[Fay2121]

I keep hearing the phrase.

What is the reality of 'we just have to live with it'.

@ValerieCupcake

What do you think of this?

There is a friend's birthday on Saturday. She booked an afternoon tea for four of us. It involves one friend coming to town on the train to meet 2 of us. Then the 3 of us getting a taxi to the venue. The other person lives near the venue. The friend who is getting the train has cancelled. She is frightened of a taxi. She said she wouldn't feel comfortable.

It doesn't bother me. Does it bother you?

I would be cancelling my friendship with her. No time for people like that.

@LiesDoNotBecomeUs

More people have the virus here than ever before.

Some are still getting ill enough to need hospital care:
We have more people in our local hospital with the virus now than we did at the peak of lockdown. (It was just under 100 in Jan 2021 and is well over 100 now).

There is a difference in that we have half the number in ICU than we did during the peak in lockdown.

People ARE getting ill enough to be hospitalised fewer are ill enough to need intensive-care beds.

The NHS here is struggling to cover non-covid matters. This is what 'living with the virus' means.

This Waiting lists are horrendous and staff sickness in the NHS is becoming more of a problem so routine services get disrupted. So 'living with Covid' might mean living with a long gyne wait list or a knee replacement.

As well as problems in the NHS, schools are really struggling, classes and year groups having their education disrupted.

Our bins were not collected this week because of staff sickness.

I could go on and on.

I would very much like to get back to normal as soon as possible and live with Covid, and to an extent I think it's the way forward. But there needs to be some acknowledgement of the disruption it still causes.

And as an aside, my reality:

2 staff members in the NHS Trust I work for died of Covid. Both were healthy under 50's, one was in their 20's.
A friend (35 and fit) ended up in ICU in early March 2020. She recovered but was off work for 6 months and still has heart problems likely to be a long term complication of Covid
Lots of people I know have had Covid but they run the whole spectrum of asymptomatic to very unwell and needing hospitalisations. Omicron is still pretty nasty even if vaccinated (I am very thankful this is preventing many hospital admissions.

So yes, let's live with Covid but lets not pretend it is a 'cold'

I’ve just developed it for the first time. I’m triple vaccinated.

It means my Airbnb guest has had to move for the rest of the week. She is an NHS worker on placement and didn’t need the inconvenience.

My weekend guest was coming to run the Brighton Marathon - all other cheap accommodation is booked. She’s been forced to pay extortionate money for a hotel. If I could I’d pay the difference but I can’t afford it - Airbnb say it’s not down to them.

My next two week’s bookings have cancelled and I have to pay for a deep clean.

"Living with Covid" just means "the economy/my right to do what I like is more important than several to many thousands extra deaths every year".

That's all it is. It's an admission that we can't "solve" Covid and we're not even going to try.

That's all it is. It's an admission that we can't "solve" Covid and we're not even going to try.

We can't solve covid, no. But what are you saying? Should we do lots of costly things (from a social and psychological POV as well as economic) even though we know that they won't make a difference?

@Nicholethejewellery We've just spent 2 years trying to solve/avoid it. We've tried. No we can't 'solve' a virus, obviously, but we can try to develop effective vaccines and treatments. And yes, 60 million people's right to live freely is more important than thousands of extra deaths a year. It's a balance and a risk/benefit. We can't limit millions of people for the sake of thousands.

In my line of work (long term psychiatric hospital, 'getting on with it' means that if someone catches covid we have to shut that ward down, no one can have leave, no transfers, no one can be discharged. It can mean they at very often antipsychotic medication must be stopped due to it causing alarming abnormalities to their blood results. This causes them to sometimes become unwell or it delays their discharge, at a time when we still have less substantive staff than ever before!
We are still very much in a pandemic with staff not being able to work whilst covid positive nor if a family member has tested positive. There's a very good reason for that!
Imagine you have a family member who is mentally unwell and they can't leave the ward for nearly a month as patient after patient tests positive for covid. Imagine that all regular staff are wiped out and you constantly have agency staff who don't know the patients. Imagine their consultant is off, their social worker, psychologist, activities team etc etc. This has been going on for over two years and it seems worse than ever! Their quality of life is so poor compared to before. And for what? So Sheila can go to Morrisons after testing positive?

And for what? So Sheila can go to Morrisons after testing positive?

Being very dismissive of the impact restrictions have on society doesn't actually help this discussion.

We were isolating for 16 days as a family in a very small house, with big impacts on both our businesses, our children's education, their mental health.

That's before we get into the actual efficacy of these measures.

@TheKeatingFive the rates were nowhere near as bad as before the idiotic decision to stop mandatory isolation and free testing. Our hospital is the worst, staffing and moralwise, that it has ever been. I don't see many of my team still being in the NHS in a years time. All of this seems to have been for nothing, and you know who suffers the most, the patients.

@likemindedarseholes

Why would someone else’s anti psychotic medication have to be stopped due to someone testing positive on a psychiatric ward? Something doesn’t add up tnere. That’s ethically wrong and I’m very suspicious. You cannot simply prioritise a covid infection over someone’s MH meds.

My auntie is not long home from an inpatient stay and not once did she have her meds stopped and she was in there for months. I’m certain they wouldn’t have escaped covid on the ward, we are a large city.

@Eyedropeyeflop if you test positive and are on certain medications then you might have to stop them due to abnormal blood results. Look up the research.

Yes, people not going to Morrisons after testing positive is the only thing that's important here, and also if people didn't go to Morrison's after testing positive nobody would ever get covid again. That's a full solution to the entire pandemic.

the rates were nowhere near as bad as before the idiotic decision to stop mandatory isolation and free testing.

Those things have just stopped a few days ago. So rates aren't reflective of that change.

All of this seems to have been for nothing

What has been for nothing? Covid measures? What were you expecting them to achieve?

Thursday 24th of February was when mandatory isolation ended. It was impossible to get LFT's for weeks before then.

@likemindedarseholes

Ahh I see. It could make them unwell coming off their meds.

It could also be argued that covid restrictions in general are just as damaging to people who suffer from severe and enduring psychotic Illnesses.

I know the people in my family who suffer from psychosis certainly suffered the most during the height of the pandemic.

They are managing their mental health a lot better now restrictions have eased somewhat so it really isn’t as black and white as what you’re suggesting.

Have you ever thought the reason why they’ve potentially relapsed and ended up as an inpatient is because of covid restrictions? Certainly was the case with my auntie.

@TheKeatingFive I was expecting the country not to be stupid enough to leave the house with covid. But with no sickpay or government funds to pay for people to isolate those people had no choice.

@Invasionofthegutsnatchers

Teachers with no access to LFTs unless they pay for them out of their own pockets, coming to work with a temperature and flu symptoms, battling through 10-12 hours of a highly stressful day because apparently it doesn't spread in schools, only hospitals and prisons

Well if you're really unwell you just take time off surely? You know, like any other illness. Teachers get sick days just like any other employees.

Thursday 24th of February was when mandatory isolation ended. It was impossible to get LFT's for weeks before then.

Guidance and policies in most public places didn't change until 1st April and your point about lfts isnt true.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't some of the Scandinavian countries lifted pretty much all restrictions?

And how is it looking for them? How will it look when Omicron sub variant hits? There is also a different mindset certainly in the likes of Sweden. They didn't have to be told to be careful, they were just told it would be a good idea and they did it.

I was expecting the country not to be stupid enough to leave the house with covid.

But what was 'all for nothing' is specifically what I'm asking. What was the 'all'?

And how is it looking for them? How will it look when Omicron sub variant hits? There is also a different mindset certainly in the likes of Sweden.

It's true of Norway, Denmark and ROI too, all of whom have been held up on here as much superior to the U.K. in their handling of covid

Possibly the 'properly followed' is a nod to measures that perform better in controlled conditions than they do in the big wide world with actual humans being normal and inconvenient.

Mainly I meant properly followed i.e proper ventilation being used, offices being set up properly. But yes, also people understanding that a mask goes over your nose too.

Mainly I meant properly followed i.e proper ventilation being used, offices being set up properly.

I'd still love to know what these measures are, given than full on lockdown is not achieving that much in China

@BoredZelda

Possibly the 'properly followed' is a nod to measures that perform better in controlled conditions than they do in the big wide world with actual humans being normal and inconvenient.

Mainly I meant properly followed i.e proper ventilation being used, offices being set up properly. But yes, also people understanding that a mask goes over your nose too.

I'm all up for proper ventilation, but meanwhile, do you think people just putting low grade masks over their noses too, in the face of something as contagious as Omicron actually qualifies as 'could really help' and if so what's the evidence?

I spent yesterday in a meeting with a group at work of in a small poorly ventilated room. 2 of the group clearly had 'colds' but said they had tested negative so you just have to trust in this. We shall see how many have the cold next week. It is actually amazing to think only 12 months ago the idea of being anywhere near a work colleague was considered risky.