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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Are we taking bets yet on when mass civil unrest will begin re. Cost of living?

409 replies

UsernameInTheTown · 02/04/2022 18:34

Having frozen my backside off these past two days as I'm terrified to have the heating on longer than an hour a day, I'm thinking that this will be utterly intolerable come next Winter. Will there be mass civil unrest and the guillotine rolled out while the affluent are targeted by the desperate and those with nothing left to loose?

OP posts:
XDownwiththissortofthingX · 02/04/2022 23:18

Now if we: invested a lot, long term, in capital infrastructure, education and healthcare, taxed the rich a bit more, regulated inefficient markets better and put aside money for crises such as this- just think where we'd be in a few decades

Absolutely. The issue in the UK is that it's been a case of 'keep stamp duty down, low income tax, no rise to NI, no raise in the upper tax bracket' and so on and so forth, people lap up the 'low tax' part of UK living, but they simultaneously demand free at the point of access health care, a healthy jobs market so they can afford to buy overpriced homes, cheap personal loans to buy and run multiple cars, and cheap fuel to put in those totally unnecessary cars, free state education for their children, an armed forces to protect them, the expectation of foreign holidays at a competitive exchange rate, and an ever increasing and improving standard of living.

So how does a government provide this 'cheap everything' utopia that the UK public seems to expect in perpetuity? Well not buy telling them that it's totally unrealistic and unsustainable, nope, well just borrow a few trillion more and pour that down the drain as well.

The fact is, the UK public have had the wool pulled over their eyes for decades by politicians who only care about electoral viability, and are totally unwilling to point out some difficult and unpalatable truths about the reality of the UK economy.

ToothGrinder · 02/04/2022 23:19

Sufraggettes got us to a pretty handy place via rioting also.

Then if you look to wider Europe it was the basis of democracy.

Zotter · 02/04/2022 23:20

I wrote earlier that I am aware energy suppliers have to buy off the wholesale gas and electricity market but reading up a bit I have learnt many of the energy supply companies are vertically integrated both generating energy then selling it on the wholesale market and also in a separate arm of the business buying from the wholesale market and supplying it to consumers. Some make the bulk of their profits from generation not supply and so some of those energy companies can afford the increase in wholesale prices.

Apparently vertical integration makes it hard to assess companies’ overall profits. It’s not always clear how much power each of the energy companies sell to their supply arms and sell to other companies. It’s also not clear how that relationship impacts their profits, on either the generation or supply side.

www.carbonbrief.org/how-energy-companies-make-profit-a-closer-look-at-the-data

Talliah · 02/04/2022 23:22

To the people who are saying the government can’t do anything to provide adequate living conditions for the population of the country for financial reasons: why do you think this is?

Other European countries manage to give a far larger proportion of the population a decent standard of living. We are a wealthy country too. Surely you can see it’s a political decision not simply an inevitability?

XDownwiththissortofthingX · 02/04/2022 23:23

@Malibuismysecrethome

We should take back control of energy and utility companies, including all water companies, and the Dartford Crossing, all of which were owned by us in the not too distant past. I believe it was Margaret Thatcher who started privatisation. Hedge funds are also scooping up estate agents and children’s homes etc and are only interested in profits.
Privatisation of water and utilities is one of the greatest scandals in living memory. It's essentially a life tax, gleefully handed over to for-profit organisations.

The Tories would happily have a private company turn a profit by charging you for the air you breathe if they could figure out a way to measure it, and if they could make sure the profits ended up in the pockets of their revolting criminal cartel of a party.

ToothGrinder · 02/04/2022 23:24

We’re not Russia, we count ourselves as Western and well-off

Lol. Russians get free heating and hot water.

Livelovebehappy · 02/04/2022 23:24

@UsernameInTheTown

What about mass starvation and people frozen to death/illnesses exacerbated by the cold, not to mention poverty and debt fuelled suicides?
That’s quite a bit of hysteria and scaremongering there. Today’s society is not going to let people starve or freeze to death. I still have faith that the government would not allow this to happen. Life will be harder, but I think we’ve shown over the past couple years of Covid that we can pull together and get through this.
GlasswareisOverated · 02/04/2022 23:24

@zotter sounds like the way they run things is designed to hide the truth of how much they actually make.
I am also sure this system involves off-shore bank accounts.

BoredZelda · 02/04/2022 23:25

They want warm homes for all and the government to fund this through upgraded insulation etc

A really laudable goal, ruined by tactics which meant the message never really made it into the public consciousness.

GreenNewDealNow · 02/04/2022 23:26

It's all so depressing. I think our children deserve better.

CatAndHisKit · 02/04/2022 23:26

@Libertaire

This is Britain. We don’t do ‘mass civil unrest’. We leave that sort of thing to the French, who are actually prepared to stand up to their rulers, rather than just complaining about them. We just moan about how badly the country is run, then go out and re-elect the Tories.
BUT is anywhere else better currrently (for simplicity talking about Europe)? Germany used to be much bettereconomically / health srvice but they are up the proverbial with their Russian gas supplies and poss rationing of it. Whole world is in a bit of chaos - that'san understatement but just to say, it can get a lot worse! it can even be a nuclear war.
CatAndHisKit · 02/04/2022 23:27

And as if Labour will magically resolve the economic crisis!

ToothGrinder · 02/04/2022 23:29

@Zotter absolutely. It's all bent as fuck. Centrica is the same company as British Gas, for eg.

I can just imagine how those price negotiations go.

BG: Hi centrica, how much would you like to sell your gas to us for?
Centrica: what's the price cap and how are our shareholders doing?
BG: funny you should mention it, the price cap's pretty low but if we say we can't get it any cheaper I'm sure that'll change. Shares are okay but you know always room for improvement.
Centrica: right you are, we're going to charge you 54% more. Global market innit.
BG: great stuff. We'll have a word and get back to you.

Snoozer11 · 02/04/2022 23:29

I'm so angry I don't even care if the demonstrations aren't peaceful.

I want Johnson and Sunak to know just how angry people are.

Gilead · 02/04/2022 23:34

Today’s society is not going to let people starve or freeze to death

It’s already happening. I haven’t had my heating in this winter, I live in one of the most likely places to get snow in England, and we’ve had some. I put on extra clothes and use a heated blanket. I may stop the blanket too, it’s not mich but it’ll help. I’m currently in hospital with a problem caused by eating things that are cheap but I don’t have the innards to digest. Oh and a kidney infection due to dehydration. My carers couldn’t get in for a few days which limited my coffee but I can’t drink too much water either, due to my disability that is more likely to dehydrate me.
I’m disabled, I cannot move about to keep warm and the utilities company have raised my payments to a third of my monthly income. Out of your bubble and into the real world for the sake of people like me please.

Blossomtoes · 02/04/2022 23:37

@Snoozer11

I'm so angry I don't even care if the demonstrations aren't peaceful.

I want Johnson and Sunak to know just how angry people are.

Local elections next month. The ballot box is your friend.
HRTQueen · 02/04/2022 23:41

It’s not the done thing here in the UK it won’t happen

Most people will just get by so just that bit too comfortable to feel they need to demonstrate

Zotter · 02/04/2022 23:42

[quote GlasswareisOverated]@zotter sounds like the way they run things is designed to hide the truth of how much they actually make.
I am also sure this system involves off-shore bank accounts.[/quote]
@GlasswareisOverated, I read Ed Miliband when Labour leader called for a ‘ring fencing’ of the two sides of many of the energy companies businesses to address it being hard to assess energy companies overall profits.

Digressing I note here the government are currently pushing through Parliament the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill which will make protesting harder. V handy :(

MrsPsmalls · 02/04/2022 23:43

No one will riot. If they do they will be in prison double quick. Sentences were punitive after the 2011 London riots and the law has changed since then making riots even less likely.

TweenTrauma · 02/04/2022 23:45

Part of me thinks I fucking hope there are riots.

But I was caught up in a riot at a Christmas market in Toulouse a few years back. There was me and my ex, casually browsing the festive nick nacks at the cute little stalls. Next thing, chaos descended. Gilet jaunes surrounded the market, and starting rattling the temporary metal fencing. Then there was tear gas everywhere, I had to cover my face with my jumper and it was hard to breathe, people were dashing off in all directions. I had lost my ex so I was on my own and honestly I felt so scared and panicked, and I’m not a pansy by any stretch of the imagination. Then the police were there with bowsers of water spraying it to diffuse the gilet jaunes. It was all terrifying, and I remember thinking as my heart rate eventually returned to normal that I am really glad shit like that doesn’t happen in the U.K.

So that’s a long winded way of saying in reality I don’t think I’d cope very well with riots. Even if riots don’t happen, I think what we will see is a big rise in crime, thefts etc. People have a survival instinct and they will do what they need to do to survive and provide for their families when their backs are up against the wall.

Zotter · 02/04/2022 23:45

[quote ToothGrinder]@Zotter absolutely. It's all bent as fuck. Centrica is the same company as British Gas, for eg.

I can just imagine how those price negotiations go.

BG: Hi centrica, how much would you like to sell your gas to us for?
Centrica: what's the price cap and how are our shareholders doing?
BG: funny you should mention it, the price cap's pretty low but if we say we can't get it any cheaper I'm sure that'll change. Shares are okay but you know always room for improvement.
Centrica: right you are, we're going to charge you 54% more. Global market innit.
BG: great stuff. We'll have a word and get back to you.[/quote]
Absolutely! Wonderfully illustrated.

HRTQueen · 02/04/2022 23:47

I don’t want there to be riots

People get caught up on the hysteria of it there will be people hurt, police attacked, looting

I think some on here would love there to be riots it’s been predicted on a number of occasions since Brexit

Florenz · 02/04/2022 23:51

Labour need to get their shit together and become a threat so that either they a) win an election or b) get close enough that the Tories have to make things better for enough people so they can win. At the moment that is not even close to happen, the Tories are the overwhelming favourites to win the next general election.

Mayorquimby2 · 02/04/2022 23:51

Not a hope you'll riot or protest.

Half the country will be too busy "but labouring" and asking why starmer had failed to hold the gov to account and bring to blame for rising costs

Manekinek0 · 02/04/2022 23:53

@Snoozer11

I'm so angry I don't even care if the demonstrations aren't peaceful.

I want Johnson and Sunak to know just how angry people are.

I completely agree. They had a lovely meal with the Tory donors at Claridge's on the eve of the price hikes. None have faced charges over taxpapers money they siphoned off to their chums during covid. I could go on.

Now we have a thread on here where the OP had been in tears and can't afford basic shopping items. Others about how to cope in cold houses.

They must be laughing at us.